Ep. 210 A Warm Hug with Danny Pellegrino

Written By Megan Caballero

Today we're joined by the delightful Danny Pellegrino, author of How Do I Un-Remember This?: Unfortunately True Stories, a collection of essays about growing up as a closeted gay kid in small-town Ohio. We discuss the need to spotlight books in pop culture, the responsibility of media to tell stories that include gay characters, and how we handle grief. Traci also urges Danny to start his own LGBTQIA+ book club, watch out Reese!

The Stacks Book Club selection for April is Doppelgangbanger by Cortney Lamar Charleston. We will discuss the book on April 27th with Nate Marshall.

 
 

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TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Traci Thomas 0:09
Welcome to The Stacks a podcast about books and the people who read them. I’m your host Traci Thomas and today we are joined by pop culture and reality TV podcaster Danny Pellegrino, who is the host of Everything Iconic with Danny Pellegrino, Danny just released his book – a memoir in essays called How Do I Unremember This: Unfortunately True Stories. It was an instant New York Times bestseller and the book covers Danny’s coming of age as a closeted gay kid growing up in small town, Ohio and the many embarrassing stories he collected over the years. We talked today about pop culture, Danny’s lifelong love of books and the importance of queer stories. Don’t forget The Stacks book club pick for April is Doppelgangbanger by Courtney Lamar Charleston. We will be discussing the book on Wednesday, April 27th with Nate Marshall. Quick reminder, everything we talked about on every single episode of the stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. It will have a link for every person book, article, essay, TV show and whatever else we mentioned on the episode, so please click that link in the show notes. All right, now it’s time for my chat with the Danny Pellegrino.

All right, everybody, I’m so excited. Today we’re gonna do a books meets pop culture moment. We have Danny Pellegrino, who is author, podcast host and many things pop culture genius savant, perhaps, Danny, welcome to The Stacks.

Danny Pellegrino 2:27
Traci, I’m so excited to chat with you. I know your show. I listened to your show. I was just before this listening to your Kendrick James interview. And I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Traci Thomas 2:39
I’m so excited to talk to you. We’re gonna start by talking about your book. How do I unremember this? So in about 30 seconds or so? Will you just let people know what the book is about?

Danny Pellegrino 2:49
Yeah, how do I remember this is a collection of short stories that will hopefully make you laugh. They’re loaded with nostalgia, pop culture, references, their family stories, bad dates, all the awkward moments that you wish you could unremember that I don’t care if you’re laughing with me or at me as long as you’re laughing while you’re reading the book. And then there’s a couple other chapters too, that are a little bit more serious. But for the most part, I want the book to feel like a warm hug. And some of that you could read at the pool or the beach or just to get away for a couple hours.

Traci Thomas 3:16
I read this book while I was in Palm Springs this weekend. And I was definitely laughing I listened to some of the audiobook which I personally love because it’s your voice and it’s you and so it felt like extra Danny, I’m always curious, I always ask people who have like public personas, which I think that you do, how do you know how much to share? How do you decide? Like, what is okay? And what? And like, do you reach out to people and be like, Hey, I’m gonna tell that story we’re gonna embarrassing thing happened.

Danny Pellegrino 3:47
You know, for the book, I tried to change everyone’s names and, and those sorts of details to as to not offend anyone. But I tried to always just keep a focus on myself. So even my boyfriend is sort of a large presence in the book, but I don’t name him and I tried to keep whatever stories if I was talking about something that happened between us, I tried to keep it focused on my feelings and what happened with me in the scenario. And so I tried to be as respectful as possible. But ultimately, I decided I couldn’t reach out to people beforehand, because I thought it would censor me too much. And I wanted it to be open and honest. So I, I sort of felt like I just had to trust my gut that I wouldn’t write anything that anyone would be offended by. The the person I was most worried about was my mother because my mom can be very buttoned up. And so she was someone that I couldn’t change the name in the book, you know, it’s my parents. So they were sort of, they had to be in there. And so I was worried about her, but ultimately, she liked it. And I think, yeah, I just trusted my gut in that. And I think there were a couple of moments where I would take out a line or something if I felt like it would be something someone would read and, and be offended by. But on my podcast, I noticed the more sort of open and vulnerable I got On the show, the more people would reach out to me and, and relate to my stories or when I talked about mental health on my show, I would get messages of people saying they had similar experiences, obviously different but some shared commonalities. So I just tried to be myself. And hopefully no one was offended by it. I haven’t heard of anyone offended yet.

Traci Thomas 5:22
Okay, that’s good. That’s good. No, there will be someone I’m sure who’s like, Oh, my God, I can’t believe that. But who cares? I mean, maybe you do, but I don’t. I don’t know that they’re not my friends. I want to talk to you mentioned your podcast, I want to talk about this idea of detours, you sort of open the book with, you know, letting the reader know, sometimes on your show, we’re your show you, you recap, reality TV, Bravo shows, but you do these little detours where you’ll talk about something from your life. And you bring this up at the start of the book. And they happen throughout the book. And I really liked that device, as a podcast host. And as a as a reader reading these stories. And I want to know what sort of excited you or spoke to you about this idea of a detour?

Danny Pellegrino 6:04
Well, it happened organically and accidentally on my show, when I was recapping real housewives or one of the shows I talked about, or when I’m interviewing a celebrity guest, I would just sort of go on these tangents. And I noticed when I was touring pre pandemic, that’s what people were coming up to me and asking about was the story about my mom and her woodpecker, or just a bad date story that I told on the show. So I recognize that that was connecting with people. And I liked telling those stories, I used to be a stand up comedian before the podcast. And so oftentimes, those stories within the realm of the podcast, I would look at them as sort of little stand up bits, or I would, I would almost craft them not as specifically as I would have a stand up set or something like that. But I would, I would sort of map out in my head, I want to tell that story before I would get on the microphone. And then I would try to find a spot that fit organically to tell those stories. And so when it came to the book, I knew Originally, the book was sold as under the title of detours, because I thought, people who listen to my podcasts would know that. And then ultimately, the publisher told me that they tested it, and it reminded people too much of construction. So they said, We can’t name it that. And so that was frustrating, a frustrating conversation to have. But I liked that device. And I also like in the writing process, it was fun for me to just be able to take these little tangents throughout a story. So each chapter will be about one specific story. But then within that I can talk about home alone, too, or I can talk about my sexual awakenings for a couple of pages. And so it was really just fun, fun for me to write in that way. And, and at the end of the process, I was really looking at all of those and see where I should scale back. Or if there were certain ones I took out or, or I moved around. And, and so it was fun. And also it was a creative challenge to to find out where they fit naturally. And I didn’t want them to take too much away from the the larger narrative I was trying to tell within each chapter. And so I loved it. And also, it kind of goes back I tend to speak in pop culture, I love movies, TV, toys, all that stuff. And it was fun to be able to get into all of those 90s references, the nostalgia, and I was worried at at a certain point, like are there too many pop culture references, and ultimately, I decided that I should just lean into that and hopefully other people will relate and enjoy and, and understand the references.

Traci Thomas 8:37
I love the pop culture references. I’m going to take a detour really quick. I once had to do stand up comedy for a class in college, I went to NYU and it was like a summer school class. And it was a really, it was only like five of us. And when I tell you that it was the most terrifying thing I’ve ever done, I made myself sick. I had diarrhea, because I was so stressed out and so nervous. And I killed obviously, but I will never it’s too much. It is the kind of like now whenever I see stand up comedians, I’m like, whatever kind of like, metal balls you have. It’s insane. Like it’s very challenging.

Danny Pellegrino 9:17
And I didn’t love I also studied a lot of sketch and improv. So I studied at Second City in Chicago and here at the Groundlings and, and I always loved the performance aspect of being onstage with a group of people and that shared experience. And so when I was doing stand up, it was too stressful. Like even when I would have a really good show it was there was too much of this and I’m someone who already suffers from anxiety. And so it was like I would get so hyped up the nervous diarrhea. All of that stuff. It’s like, sorry to be gross, but it’s true. You get your body and everything goes through something and since the podcast started taking off and I just got off a book tour where I was doing sort of this mix of stand up my podcasts Then these shows that were a little bit off three, but then also sort of stand up to a little bit. It was, I just, it’s too much for me like I can do it in little spurts. And so I did, like six or seven cities or something. And it was, it was all in two weeks, which was exhausting. But I’m not something I could never do like the yearly I know people who are on the road all the time, and it’s too much and too much anxiety, too much hormones, all of that.

Traci Thomas 10:30
It’s like the it’s like a roller coaster every time I still that was like 15 years ago, and I still get like, my heart rate is up right now. Just thinking about it. It was so scary.

Danny Pellegrino 10:42
I said, you killed you said you remember, do you remember like one joke from it?

Traci Thomas 10:46
So well, I don’t remember the exact thing but I’m black and Jewish. So I had this whole bit about how like, I’ve kind of come up with something like I’m always late, but I bring bagels or something. I don’t know. I can’t remember it was it was good. You don’t have to fake laugh but I can’t remember.

Danny Pellegrino 11:02
I’m not fake laughing I love stand up stories. Got any sort of do have to you have to fit yourself into like a box. You know, that’s how they teach you to do stand up. It’s so horrible. You’re a persona.

Traci Thomas 11:16
Yeah. And it was at I think it was at stand up New York like the place with the neon sign. Like it was like a cool place or like this great picture of me like sitting on a stool like holding a mic being like, but you can see like the sweat stains and my pink shirt because I’m nervous. Anyways, okay, let’s get off the worst thing my life. It’s hard.

Danny Pellegrino 11:36
It’s hard. When I was doing the book tour, it’s like there’s some sort of comfort level just because there’s a chair I could sit down on and I would have my computer hooked up to the TV. So it was like I have I have that crutch. But I don’t know that I would be able to. It would be really challenging to just go back out on stage with just a microphone and nothing else.

Traci Thomas 11:56
Yeah. Oh, man. That was the worst. Okay, you mentioned your pop culture brain. I know people like you who remember every little pop culture a moment reference thing like I heard you on keep it I know Louis retail is like that to where it’s just like, every little thing. I’m like you guys are it’s it’s crazy. It’s like a savant moment. But how do you feel like you’re able to stay relevant in a space that’s now like, so saturated with so many people who are like constantly talking about pop culture? And it’s like, so easy to access everything.

Danny Pellegrino 12:29
Yeah, I think it’s all about authenticity. So I don’t try to talk about shows I don’t like or, or movies or anything like that, that I’m not into. And I do love pop culture. And I do watch a lot of TV and, and see a lot of movies and stuff. But I just tried to follow what I like and, and whether that’s something nostalgic. Like I was just tweeting about 90s McDonald’s toys, because it’s like, that’s what I’m into. And so I don’t, I don’t try to force it. I think that’s the most important thing is just follow what you like. And then I think with the podcast, I learned that what I like, hopefully other people will also like, and that’ll be how we have our shared communication. But I don’t try to just, oh, everyone’s talking about this thing. I’m going to talk about this thing. If it’s natural, then I do it. And if not, I ignore it. I mean, there’s certain shows that even in the history of my podcasts I’ve tried to maybe dip into and it’s like I wasn’t really into it or or even within the realm of housewives because I cover a lot of Bravo on my show. And there have been times I just, I won’t recap a season of a show and because I’m not feeling it, and I don’t want to ever get on the microphone or, or on my social media or something and talk about something I’m hating and I’d much rather celebrate and talk about the things that I love and and so I just follow that.

Traci Thomas 13:50
Do you ever get in a situation where you start out talking about something that you think you’re gonna love? And then you get to like the middle or the end? And you’re like, Fuck, I actually hate this and like, how do you approach that conversation?

Danny Pellegrino 14:01
Yeah, there have been times on my podcast this season, in particular of The Real Housewives of Orange County. I’m not liking it at all. And I took off last season and covering it and so I tend to just people will listen and they’ll be like, Oh, you’re starting to trail off on your Orange County recaps? And I’m like, Well, I’m not into it.

Traci Thomas 14:20
Yeah, so you don’t ever go go like negative on things you try to just like stop.

Danny Pellegrino 14:25
I try to stop of course there’s times I will go negative or I’ll just tell people like I’m bored or I’m not like I’m not enjoying this but I do try my best and again, that’s not a concrete thing. There are certainly times but where I can see you negative or something. But for the most part I try as best I can to just keep it as a celebration things I love. That doesn’t mean I won’t be critical if something if I’m recapping or whatever, but I just try to keep it what I like. Yeah, because I don’t want to be then I get in a negative headspace, right? It’s not even about the audience. It’s just like, I don’t want to be sitting here hating something.

Traci Thomas 15:06
Yeah, no, I totally get that I am a big bachelor fan bachelor franchise fan. And there’s a few podcasts that I’ve like been able to guest host on. And you know, you have to take all the notes and the whole thing. But sometimes, like, the episodes are really horrible. And like, there’s like crazy shit where you’re like, Okay, now I have to talk about this. And this sucks, like, want to talk about this. So I totally get that. And that’s happened on this show to where like, I have to talk like we do for book club, we pick a book, and then I end up hating it. And then I’m like, Oh, well, I can’t lie, people will know, I did not like this blog.

Danny Pellegrino 15:41
And people can see through the bullshit. And I think I always notice when I’m really loving something, if I’m really into a topic, those are the episodes of mine that tend to do the best, the ones where I’m just sort of blog about something. No one people, some people might listen, but I think people can tell. And so I it’s always more successful. I think when you’re at least really into it. You don’t always have to really love it. But you have to be really like passionate about it.

Traci Thomas 16:07
Yeah, yeah, that’s yeah, I always say that people always ask like, how do I pick guests and authors, and I’m always like, I just pick whoever I’m the most curious about. Like, it doesn’t necessarily mean that I have to love them, I just have to be curious about who they are and what they’re doing. And people

Danny Pellegrino 16:23
ask me all the time about I have a lot of housewives or celebrity guests on my show. And people ask like, how am I choosing who I have on and I it’s always just who I want to talk to? Like I don’t, I’m an independent podcast. So it’s not like I have to there’s, I get emails all the time of somebody saying, Oh, well, you have this person on or that person on? And I always say no, if I’m not into it, but then there’s other times, they don’t have to be the biggest star or the biggest, whoever. It’s just has to be someone I’m into. Because I know that if I’m not, it’s going to be a bad interview. I’ve done those interviews in the past to where we’re all bored, and there’s no one’s getting anything from it. But if I’m at least interested, then I think it’ll make for better listening.

Traci Thomas 17:02
Yeah, that’s exactly my thing, too. I think when you’re I’m also independent. And I think when you’re independent, you have that freedom even more. So if like, there’s no one over your shoulder at all, you can just be like, I don’t care about that. I don’t want to do it.

Danny Pellegrino 17:14
It’s hard to explain to people though, the audience I think sometimes doesn’t understand that. Because there are so many podcasts that are run by these big organizations and stuff like that. And for an independent show, you don’t have to follow any rules. You don’t have to have guests on at all. There’s times where I go months where I don’t have any guests on.

Traci Thomas 17:33
Yeah. And that’s, that’s so hard. I don’t know how you do that. Because I hate I hate talking alone into a microphone. I’m like, Oh, I don’t have a guest I got my best friends in town. I’m like, You need to come talk to me today. Like I can’t do it. But that’s like a such a skill.

Danny Pellegrino 17:49
I like having the freedom to just record whenever I want. And, and I could work I like being able to record when I have the most energy. So it’s like, I’ll have my coffee and then I’ll go and record and and I don’t have to worry about scheduling with people. And so I like having guests sometimes. But it’s I think for the most part, it’s easier for me to just record on my own.

Traci Thomas 18:10
Yeah, that makes sense. So I know another thing that you love that you talked about in the book is you love books and bookstores. And I’m really curious as a person who also loves like, pop culture, and I do believe that books, you know, our pop culture, but I’m wondering, do you feel like book books get the pop culture credit that they deserve? Or like how can books start getting getting that like, pop culture edit?

Danny Pellegrino 18:39
No, you know, I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, because there are all these book clubs that have like Reese Witherspoon, people, like you have made books cool and within pop culture. And I think it’s important for us to have more people like yourself and whoever are running these book clubs and spotlighting books, like we need to spotlight books more and even within my little realm of the world. I keep thinking I need to do more shows about books and I need to do what I can to spotlight books because I do love reading and and just because of the nature of my show, I don’t always get to talk about books, or sometimes I’ll have authors on and sometimes I’ll do book club episodes about certain celebrity memoirs or something like that. But yeah, I wish that I wish that people read more and I wish that books were spotlighted more and even I was thinking I feel like there aren’t a lot of gay book clubs or gay men who are who are spotlighting other gay men because when with my book when I was taking out I would hear back from a lot of these book clubs, whether they be the celebrity book clubs or the smaller book clubs, but it was a lot of spotlighting female authors and and people of color and all of that stuff is so great. I just was noticing there’s there seemed to me to be a little bit of a void for spotlighting a GPT Q authors and I so I think you’re gonna start. I don’t know. No, I mean, I it seems like a daunting task, but I wish there were more. I don’t know. There’s only a handful of celebrity gay men. People like Andy Cohen or or Anderson Cooper, Matt Belmar, whoever. Yeah. And it’s like I need some of those people to start up a club. I know Andy has a wonderful imprint, but it would be nice to have people like that spotlighting LGBTQ authors.

Traci Thomas 20:32
Yeah, no, you’re right. I’m like trying to wrack my brain. I’m sure there’s someone that I’m not thinking of. But you’re totally right. Yeah. Like, I’m sure there are people but yeah, but like not, not on like the Reese Witherspoon level, or whatever. That leads me to my next topic that I would talk about. So I mean, you’re gay. And you’re like, unabashedly gay, which is I think-

Danny Pellegrino 20:53
You’re outing me, Traci, have you?

Traci Thomas 20:55
Oh, spoiler alert from the bug. But like, I think one of the one of the sections I loved was when you were talking about frog from Father of the Bride, one of my favorite characters, and just one of my favorite movies. And you talk a little bit about like, how it had never dawned on me, which you say in the book that he was gay, but that like, he’s not gay, like it’s never said, he just is like, we assume he’s gay, because he’s a wedding planner, and he’s flamboyant. And he has his like, assistant who’s maybe his boyfriend, or maybe just he likes having a cute younger guy around or whatever. And I’m wondering, like how you feel now, many years after that movies come out about the representation of gay men in pop culture? Like, how has it changed for the better? How has it changed for the worse?

Danny Pellegrino 21:46
Well, I hate that we’re still in an age where things are often coded by the larger studios. I mean, we’re constantly every time there’s a new Marvel movie, or Disney animated movie or something, there’s like, Oh, we’re having an exclusive gay moment. And it’s like this, the most coded kind of things still in 2022. I remember, when the Beauty and the Beast Live Action Remake, they made such a big deal in the press about the lifou having like this sort of like, gland set, one of the other characters in a dance scene, and it was like, we’re still having to be so coded, like, larger. Yeah, it’s crumbs and or Luca was a fantastic animated film that I think most people read as the characters kind of coming of age, in a gay sense. And, of course, no one is asking for these an animated film to show to men, you know, hooking up or having sex or something. Right. But it’s still it’s still shouldn’t have to be that coded. And, and like you said, we’re settling for crumbs. And and I was just reading about the new Buzz Lightyear movie where they because of all the Disney say, gay controversy that’s going on, they are reinstating a gay cast that will probably happen in the background, one scene for two seconds. And, and it’s unfortunate that although we’re getting lots of great representation on television, and in independent film, it’s still for mainstream stuff, there are so many superhero movies, there are so many of these larger things that there are is not a trace of gay people anywhere to be seen. And if there are, it’s like that two second moment in the background. And so I find that troubling and upsetting and frustrating. And, and it needs to change. And we just, I think people largely the culture is okay with gay people. But it we’re just not seeing it represented on screen at all. And right. I mean, you mentioned the bachelor, and I’ve dipped into the world of bachelor, but it’s something like that, where I, I don’t my brain doesn’t understand that we’ve had 25 seasons of a show. And even in the pandemic, they were producing the show for what seemed like very cheap because they were all Yes. Content. Yeah. Yeah. And so I don’t, I can’t understand how come ABC hasn’t just done one season. Right? I out of all those things, just do one and you still can do your other ones. And I don’t understand that. And so the representation does it make sense to me in a lot of ways-

Traci Thomas 24:25
Do you think that there’s, I mean, given you know, we’re we’re talking about this in 2022 when there is so much anti gay, anti trans anti LGBTQ plus legislation, all of this like really fucking horrible, horrible shit that is gonna fuck up so many kids and like, it makes me you know, very upset and I’m sure it makes you very upset too. I’m wondering, do you feel like the studio’s the television channels, the people who claim to you know, support LGBTQIA rights, all of these things? Do you think that they have an obligation to actually turn up? The gay? Like, do you think that that’s what they should be doing in light of this? Or do you think that like they should stay out of it? Or like, what do you what are your feelings about all of this?

Danny Pellegrino 25:14
Oh, well, it’s also upsetting. I mean, like you said, it’s just this is disgusting and upsetting. Yeah. In terms of like, specifically, like, studios, production companies and stuff like that, I do think they should just, there should be more content out there. I think the more people are able to see themselves on screen and see other people on screen, I think it does move the needle so much, because, you know, I kind of always go back to my mom. And I remember what I think it was in high school or college when the show called brothers and sisters came out. Oh, my God, I remember sitting with my mom and I grew up in Ohio and in as smaller conservative town and watching those two gay men to gay characters on screen, it may my mom, my mom related to Nora, who was played by Sally Field, and it kind of opened her eyes to what it would be like to be a mother to gay people. And she, my mom loves a soap opera, too. So it’s like, when there’s gay people represented within the realm of her entertainment, she is able to kind of understand all of it much better. And so yeah, I wish there was just more representation. And like I said, if you’re doing five or 10 superhero movies a year, there should be gay people in them, like there just should be. There’s we, it’s crazy to me that I always talk about holiday movies in the Hallmark Channel for the longest time. Finally, they’re starting to get some representation. But for the longest time, they were touting, and every, every season, they would be bragging about how they produced 40 new holiday movies. A season 40 of them, there was a point where it was 35, then it was 37. Then they’re like, Well, this year, we got 40. And there’s not one LGBT person, not even a side character in 14 movies, not even a speaking role. And I’m not even talking about the lead at this point. I was saying, what about the person at the end, they can’t have a husband or a boyfriend or so that’s not normal. That’s not the world we’re all living in. And I’m not someone who’s saying take away those. All 40 of those should be all LGBTQ or something like that. I’m just saying that you’re producing 40 new movies. Come on.

Traci Thomas 27:40
Yeah, it’s ridiculous.

Danny Pellegrino 27:41
Or do 41 to 41 and they’re finally gotten, they’ve gotten better. And they’ve gotten new leadership. And so now, the person who used to run that channel went to that new GAC network, which I think is never heard of it. They’re doing like, super. It’s very conservative. There’s no gay people over there.

Traci Thomas 28:01
But now Hallmark is finally dipping the toe. I don’t famously I don’t know if people know this, but I do not like the holidays. And I do not watch holiday movies. And I do not. And I do not listen to holiday music until Christmas Eve. I just can’t like it for whatever reason. I just don’t, I’m not into and I like Christmas. Like I like sound like it’s not about I just don’t like all of that, like people like oh, it’s September the first time like What do you mean, it’s September.

Danny Pellegrino 28:27
I swear our friendship ends because I’m the opposite of zero.

Traci Thomas 28:33
Everyone loves those things. I cannot get into them. I have friends who are in them. And I will like try to watch and then I’m like I literally I love you. But this is I can’t happen for me. Your book also like I think one of the things I really like about your book is like how openly like an unabashedly gay it is like, I feel like that is a thing about you, or like you embrace so much of yourself. And for the audience’s and I know, in publishing, sometimes they like ask people to pull back a little bit, and I did not get that sense. So I really liked that about your book.

Danny Pellegrino 29:07
Oh, thank you. I wanted it to be that I wanted, I was so lucky and happy that my publisher source books was they didn’t give me I mentioned they had some trouble with the title. But in terms of the content of the book, like they left me alone, and let me do what I wanted to do. And it was completely, they didn’t tell me to take any of it out. And I know a lot of the people that weren’t gonna get the book tend to be women. I just because I know my podcast audience there. I see the breakdowns is mostly women. And I would imagine a lot of straight women who read or listen to my show, or we’re going to pick up the book but I didn’t want to censor myself because I also it was so important for me that a gay kid in Ohio could pick up the book and recognize some stuff so I didn’t want to sanitize anything. There’s one chapter where I the story sort of revolves around a A gay porn that’s playing and I want it to just be unabashedly like this is a Shawn Cody video and there are going to be plenty of people reading it who don’t know what Shawn Cody is. But for the little gay boy in Ohio or the or the gay man reading it, they’re gonna know that reference. And so it was like that it was so important for me to not sanitize any of that any of that stuff because I remember reading, I just talked about this on that keep it show a book called swish where it was unabashedly gay. And I read that at a very formative time in my life. And when I was right before I came out of the closet, I was living in Chicago, and I read that book and, and yeah, he talked about sex and dating and all of these things. And I think it made me feel like, Oh, my life will be okay. Right. And I’ll be able to be a sexual person, a funny person, someone who loves pop culture, and has a great family life. And I so I think it’s important for it was so important for me not to sanitize any of the gay stuff. That doesn’t mean I’m always sitting there talking about gay sex, but I wanted to say,

Traci Thomas 31:06
What do you think childhood, Danny would say to you now? How would you feel about this book existing?

Danny Pellegrino 31:14
He would love it. I mean, it was a dream come true. I’ve always wanted to do this. I grew up loving, like David Sedaris. And like, we mentioned, I worked at a bookstore in high school. And so I he would just be so excited that my book was in store shelves. I mean, it was so wild to walk into a Barnes and Noble and I know, I worked at a borders, borders doesn’t exist anymore. But I spent so much time at my Solon, Ohio borders, that it was a dream come true to have a book at a bookstore now, so I think you’d be super excited. And I think also, I interviewed Miss Piggy and childhood, Danny wouldn’t have been able to understand that, like he would have just been mind blowing.

Traci Thomas 31:58
Oh, my gosh, I love that so much. Was she great?

Danny Pellegrino 32:01
She was amazing. Yeah. And Rosie O’Donnell, too, was like, those are probably the two pillars of my childhood Miss Piggy and Rosie O’Donnell getting to interview them over zoom. What more could you ask for?

Traci Thomas 32:12
Nothing. There’s one more thing I want to talk about, that’s in your book, before we sort of move on to your writing process, which is grief, you talk a lot about grief, and the feelings that come with that, and sort of the mental health around that. And I want to know why that was important to incorporate into this book, especially because as you mentioned, you wanted the book to feel like a warm hug and to be sort of a fun, funny vibe. And you know, the stories that you shared, like some of them are really, you know, their their sad story. So I’m curious where that came from for you.

Danny Pellegrino 32:49
I wasn’t expecting to write about grief at all, I was going into that chapter writing about this bad date that I had. And I thought it was really kind of silly and funny that I went on this date that was at a fast food restaurant, I thought it was funny. And then when I sat down to write it, it sort of morphed into about grief and losing my grandmother. And at the time of this date, it was like right after my grandma had passed, which I didn’t really piece together until I sat down to write the story. And so initially, when I sold the book, the only sort of deep chapter was going to be a chapter about my mental health struggle, I thought that was going to be sort of the dramatic anchor of the book, and then everything else would just be funny, silly, absurd, that kind of stuff. And ultimately, when it came up, I just decided to lean into it. And, and I thought it was so fascinating to me how we all handle grief, how we all deal with loss, and it’s so fucked up. And we, we want to act like it’s such a clean experience, but it’s a much messier experience. And, and so I was fascinated by grief and how I handled in my own life and how we culturally handle it. And every religion has their different experience from where I come from, you have your funeral services for an hour when somebody passes and then your everyone’s just expected to move on. And it’s not as clean as that. And so I thought that was just really interesting. And so I was fortunate that my publisher was very hands off with the content of the book. So when I wanted to just do a whole chapter about grief, essentially, I and I hope that there are moments in that chapter that people will smile or laugh but I went there because I felt like it’s a human experience. And I love a heavier book. I love a darker topic. My favorite book as a kid was bridge Sarabeth, EO which deals with grief and, and I kept going back to that. And the idea that kids can handle the heaviness and we can all handle the heaviness I think it’s fascinating to me, sometimes we try to stay away from something that makes us feel a little uncomfortable, but I think we can all handle it and if a kid can handle reading Brett’s Zehra bethia And in my case it became my favorite book and something I revisit Once or a year or so, then I thought, why not do a chapter about grief? And it became, I think one of my favorite, I think my favorite chapter in the book.

Traci Thomas 35:10
Yeah, I love that chapter. I think it’s really good. And I did laugh also. I mean, the date was pretty horrific.

Danny Pellegrino 35:17
Yeah. And I tend to like the dark comedy of anything. The things that I love in TV or film. I like when there’s a dark edge, there’s a show called The comeback. That’s my favorite thing ever with Lisa Goudreau. And it’s some people watch it and they’re very uncomfortable because it’s dark. But I find it so funny. And I love the mix of that.

Traci Thomas 35:38
Yeah, no, I people know that. I love a dark, dark book a dark moment. I famously say that I don’t like comedy. I do. But I don’t like I like when things are dark. And I can laugh, but I don’t like when someone’s like, trying to like, give me a ha ha moment. So you mentioned before, you’re an independent podcaster I know what that means means a lot of fucking work. How did you make time to write the book?

Danny Pellegrino 36:00
Well, I don’t know. I mean, it was during the pandemic. So I think we were all sort of stuck at home, I just dove in and in and wrote it. And I’m someone who’s always kept a journal. I’ve always, I’ve always been writing. And so I think just, I also have a lot of like, screenwriting stuff that I had worked on before the book. And so I just, I put that stuff on pause. And, and I went into the book. So I’m very disciplined with work stuff, like I’m pretty good at sitting down. And, and especially in the pandemic, I just didn’t really have a social life. And so I, I wrote all the time. And

Traci Thomas 36:38
yeah, how do you like to write? Where are you? How many hours a day? How often do you have music do you have snacks and beverages, paint the picture,

Danny Pellegrino 36:47
I can write anywhere, like I could go to a loud coffee shop and write or I’m fine sitting in quiet in a room. I’ve just, I’m someone who writes every single day. So I, there’s tons of projects I have on my computer or in my office that will never see the light of day. I mean, I have countless screenplays that will just sit on my computer or, and I have others that are kind of in different development phases. But I’m someone who just I can write as all the time. And I think that’s kind of the most important for people, if they want to be a writer, you just have to sit down and write. And a lot of it is just going to be stuff that you throw away or you never use again. But you have to know that it’s going to be something that will help you grow to the next level of writing. And even with the process of this book, I finished it and I kept writing after the book I because I want to do a second collection. And I noticed I’m loving the stuff I’m writing now because I feel like within the first book, I learned what I like and what I don’t like and where my strengths are and, and weaknesses are. And so I think you just have to keep writing and also to find your voice and to find what you you do. I mean, I learned that I’m someone who should lean into the pop culture references. That’s what I like. And I finished this book, and I like that about this book. And some people might not but I do and so you learn as you keep writing, but yeah, I write a lot.

Traci Thomas 38:15
What were your weaknesses that you discovered?

Danny Pellegrino 38:18
You know, I think not trying to shoot, when it came to the pop culture references specifically, it’s like, I’m not trying to shoehorn stuff that’s not me or that I don’t like, it doesn’t work for me to put in a sports reference or something if it’s not natural to me. Also, I think some of the stories that I like, there are certain stories in the book that I would expand on and there are certain things that I would maybe make shorter. And I learned that throughout the process of there were certain chapters that before I before the final edit, they were much longer or much shorter. And I also love in this book, there are certain chapters that are quick, a couple pages and, and I like that and so I think that’s something that I would lean into for the next one. It’s okay to have a shorter chapter and, and kind of mix and match a little bit.

Traci Thomas 39:09
Yeah. Yeah, I like when chapters are different lengths. I personally, I love essay collections, and I like when they’re not all uniform, like the same number of words or whatever. But, and this is important, Danny, you did sort of avoid the part about snacks and beverages. Do you have them when you’re writing? If so, what are they we need details about eating and drinking?

Danny Pellegrino 39:31
I mean, I’m a Yeah, I’m a snack person. So I’m uh, but I’d say I tend to lean more towards sweets. So I’m a chocolate lover. I think I think that’s what I mostly snacking on is like the peanut butter cups. I’m recently addicted to Justin’s peanut butter cups. Like the hell is it? Justin’s? Yeah, they’re like the healthy Yeah, but they’re not really healthy. And that’s only because I really believe Tracy that they have changed the recipe on Reese’s peanut butter cups because I don’t find them. The chocolate is always chalky to me now. And I love a Hershey’s chocolate but the Reese’s always tastes chocolate.

Traci Thomas 40:04
Do you ever do the seasonal shaped ones? Because those ones are my favorite. Those are

Danny Pellegrino 40:08
our ratio always more fresh and I just want to tell people a trick. You should always buy the seasonal candy no matter what it is because it’s always gonna be way more fresh than other stuff that’s sitting on the shelves. Yeah, so yeah, I think I’d say peanut butter cups are kind of my guilty pleasure and also it gives me a little boost when I need some some sugar.

Traci Thomas 40:27
Thank you for sharing a snack that I actually like because people here know sometimes people try to tell me their favorite snack is a clementine and I’m like, I’m, I am embarrassed for you. Or like I don’t snack or I just like to munch on like nuts. I’m like, Oh, really cool. Do you have any blend three almonds.

Danny Pellegrino 40:42
You know what I’m also obsessed with since we’re talking snacks is Cheez Its has a new grooves they’re called Cheez Its grooves. Oh, okay. They’re so good. They’re like a little bit thicker than the normal cheeses and they’re flavored. So there’s like a white cheddar one. That is fantastic. There’s a ranch one. And yeah, they have like little grooves but they’re cheese. It’s grooves and I’m like obsessed with them. Right. Okay,

Traci Thomas 41:06
I need to immediately goes to target to buy these.

Danny Pellegrino 41:09
The ranch ones are the best, but target doesn’t always carry the ranch ones.

Traci Thomas 41:13
Okay. Where do you got them? You’re in LA, right?

Danny Pellegrino 41:16
Yeah, I mean, the Ralph’s down the street from us has the ranch ones right. But I don’t know if they just sell out or what it is. But the ranch ones are the best one. So if you could find the ranch grooves.

Traci Thomas 41:27
Okay, I cannot wait to send you a bunch of DMs of me like covered in snacks. Okay, what about what’s a word you can never spell correctly on the first try?

Danny Pellegrino 41:39
Accommodate. There’s a joke in the book where it’s like, I had to look up how to spell accommodate. But I knew how to spell Philippi like as in Ryan Philippi. Because? Because I’ve searched for Ryan Philippi on my google image a million times since I was in seventh grade. But the word accommodate is hard. Also, when I was reading the audio book, I realized there’s a lot of words I say weird or mispronounced like an en route. I always would say en route.

Traci Thomas 42:08
And I there’s like a dry winter and are changeable.

Danny Pellegrino 42:11
I didn’t. The director told me we had to keep going over it because I said and route and he’s like, No, you can’t say it like that. It’s enroute. And there were a couple like that. I can’t remember others. But that was one.

Traci Thomas 42:22
I hear that a lot from people. They’re like, Oh, I didn’t realize I couldn’t pronounce any words because they read their audiobooks. So authors who don’t read audiobooks, they still think that they’re geniuses, but authors who do read audiobooks. They know they can’t say anything, right?

Danny Pellegrino 42:35
The audiobook process was also very helpful, because there were, there were three typos in the book that I found, the book had been off to print, and I went and recorded the audio book right before the holidays. And as I was recording, I noticed three little mistakes. And I’m sure there, there may be others in the final draft. But I noticed three of them reading the audio book. And I frantically called the editor and I was like we have to change these before it goes to print because there was one mistake on page two. And I was like it will drive me nuts. Like I luckily were able to fix them. But so I think it’s important to read the audiobook, because you’ll catch things.

Traci Thomas 43:09
Well, I so they oftentimes have authors read the audio books like right before the book comes out. And I think that they should do it earlier because I’ve heard so many authors say that they would have edited or changed sections, after they like read it out loud for the audiobook because they realize they like didn’t actually like how it flowed. And I thought that was really interesting. And then they just know that there’s a part of their book, they just hate for the rest of their lives.

Danny Pellegrino 43:34
Yeah, I just I have a friend who’s doing a book right now. And I was like, you absolutely have to record the audio book as soon as possible. And I said, make sure that they don’t send it to print until after you’re done recording because you will catch things.

Traci Thomas 43:47
So the books been out for like a month now. Well, when people are listening, it will be a month, who’s the coolest person who’s expressed interest in your book?

Danny Pellegrino 43:55
Oh my god. I mean, I did this whole press tour thing. And I got to go on the view and the Drew Barrymore show. And so it was exciting. Drew Barrymore sort of talking to me about the book and she had read she hadn’t finished it, but she had read some of it and that was like a thrill to me. And yeah, there are certain comedians I love that a Casey Wilson was super helpful throughout the process, and she even provided a blurb for me. So like she was one of the first people to read it. And I just think she’s the funniest, smartest person and so I couldn’t believe that she read the book and then also gave me this beautiful blurb that’s on the book. So yeah, I’m trying to think of who else there have been certain people. I’ve gotten DMS from and and we’re trying to adapt it as a TV show or movie and so I’ve taken some meetings and so there are people that I’ve been hearing from and it’s just wild to me, I mean, because you write it and I don’t know just the fact that anyone’s reading it or or anytime on social media when Somebody tagged me with like specific thoughts about the book. I’m like, Oh, you actually read it.

Traci Thomas 45:05
Okay, wait, if they adapted into a thing, who do you want to play you?

Danny Pellegrino 45:09
Oh my god. Well, I mean, it’s who I want to play me. Probably a gross answer. No. That’s the goal. But I keep sort of fantasy casting my parents in the book or in what it would be and thinking about who would play my mom or my dad. And I think I would love like Barney Barney hunt to play my mom because it’s very Midwestern kind of vibe. So that’s what I’ve been thinking about for Linda Pellegrino.

Traci Thomas 45:35
Okay, love that love that. For people who like this book, what else would you recommend to them to read?

Danny Pellegrino 45:41
I mentioned Casey Wilson. I think her book wreckage on my presence was fantastic. I love Phoebe Robinson is writing her and I grew up in the same town in Ohio. And I think her books are brilliant. I love this book called Swish, which I think I mentioned was super important to me when I was in college. It’s by a guy named Joel dorfner. And so those are the three that sort of pop out that I think if you like this, you would like that.

Traci Thomas 46:13
I like that. I saw Casey Wilson and Phoebe Robinson in conversation in LA. It was like one of the first things I did since the pandemic book things I did since the pandemic. But I know Casey, I used to teach at flywheel and Casey used to take my class all the time. She’s absolutely lovely person.

Danny Pellegrino 46:29
Funny, too. She cracks me up.

Traci Thomas 46:31
Yeah, she’s so great. Okay, just I have just two more questions. One is what do you hope folks will keep in mind as they read your book.

Danny Pellegrino 46:39
I hope they keep in mind that I just want them to escape for a couple hours. I just, I think everything we’re at this fever pitch right now, I think we all need to let the air out of our tires a little bit. And so I really just want it to feel like a warm hug. And I keep saying that. I feel like it sounds cheesy. But yeah, I ultimately just want people to escape. And I think we have all of these huge fights that we need to fight I think there are so there’s so much going on culturally with the world, the government everything. And I want everyone to fight those fights. I think we need to fight I was just listening to an interview about climate change. And there’s so many I mean, so many things rabbies. But I think it’s important for us all to have our escapes our outlets to recharge, replenish the batteries, all that kind of stuff. So that’s ultimately what I want. I want it set up to be something that people can check out for two hours so that they can go on and fight all those fights and have the energy to do that. I think that’s where I realized I’m best at which maybe sounds gross to say but yeah, I think that’s my purpose in life is to give people a little bit of scape so that they can go fight those fights and, and fix all the problems that we all have.

Traci Thomas 47:51
Yeah, I love that. Okay, here’s my last question for you. If you could have anyone Dead or Alive read this book, who would you want it to be?

Danny Pellegrino 47:58
Oh my god. That’s such a good question. I think I would love to know what Lucille Ball would think of the I don’t know that’s just the first person that came to mind.

Traci Thomas 48:08
Like I think someone else said Lucille Ball once I can’t remember who it was, but I was really shocked with the answer, also, and they were like, I’m a huge Lucille Ball fan.

Danny Pellegrino 48:18
I Love Lucy.

Traci Thomas 48:20
Wait, I know who it was. It was Rachel Lindsey.

Danny Pellegrino 48:22
Oh my god. And maybe I wonder if subconsciously because I listened to that interview. I went, Oh, maybe unconsciously she

Traci Thomas 48:27
mentioned. She has a book that was in conversation with her book.

Danny Pellegrino 48:31
She’s the best. She also provided a blurb for my book. I love I love Rachel. Maybe I wonder if subconsciously maybe that maybe that came. But I’m trying to think now. I feel like I need to give somebody else too. But no, it’s great.

Traci Thomas 48:43
We love a repeat. You’re in the Lucille Ball is now on the two timers, two timers book club that we’ve created.

Danny Pellegrino 48:50
I love that Golden Girls fan too. I always loved Bea Arthur and I think she’s I love her activism and what she stood for with the LGBTQ community. And so I would love her to read it.

Traci Thomas 49:06
Okay, that’s a unique no one said be Arthur.

Danny Pellegrino 49:09
And also maybe like some sort of, I think like are my gay forefathers. Just say like, I would love to know what the gay I would love the gay forefathers to know and see that like, oh, people are there. There’s a gay author coming out with a book referencing Shaun Cody. Yeah.

Traci Thomas 49:26
They would be so proud. Well, Danny, this was so great. Everyone go out and get Danny’s book. It’s called How do I unremember this and listen to Danny’s incredible podcast, everything iconic with Danny Pellegrino. Danny, thank you so much for being here.

Danny Pellegrino 49:39
Traci. It was my pleasure. I’m so excited to be here. And again, I love you. I love your show. And so I just thank you for spreading the word about books too, because I think it’s so important. And you mentioned getting the book and I just want to take a minute to if you I know everyone’s having trouble with money and all sorts of stuff. So go to your local library and get a if you ask your library to hold that I’m or support your independent bookstore. I think it’s super important. If you don’t want to buy it from one of the big retailers go and go to indiebound.org and it’ll connect you with your local bookstore.

Traci Thomas 50:09
Okay, and there will be links in the show notes for everyone to get all the books we talked about including Danny’s book and find his podcast and everything so and it will be linked to independent bookstores. Don’t you worry. Thank you so much, Danny and everyone else we will see you in the stacks.

all right, that does it for today. Thank you all so much for listening and thank you to Danny for being my guest. I’d also like to give a huge thank you to Caroline broke for coordinating this interview. Remember the stacks book club pick for April is Doppelgangbanger by Courtney Lamar Charleston, which we will be discussing on Wednesday, April 27. With Nate Marshall. If you love the show and want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/thestacks to join The Stacks Pack. Make sure you’re subscribed to The Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you’re listening through Apple Podcasts or Spotify, be sure to leave us a rating and a review. For more from The Stacks, follow us on social media at thestackspod on Instagram at thestackspod_ on Twitter and check out our website thestackspodcast.com. This episode of The Stacks was edited by Christian Dueñas, with production assistance from Lauren Tyree. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

Megan Caballero
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