Ep. 298 The Best Books of 2023 with MJ Franklin and Adam Vitcavage

Written By Cherie Marquez
Ep. 298 The Best Books of 2023 with MJ Franklin and Adam Vitcavage

New York Times Book Review editor MJ Franklin and Debutiful‘s Adam Vitcavage join The Stacks for our annual best books of the year episode. We reveal our personal picks for the ten best books of 2023, and predict trends we anticipate for 2024. Plus, we discuss all the books we’re most looking forward to reading in the new year.

The Stacks Book Club selection for December is Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare. We will discuss the book on December 27th with Farah Karim-Cooper.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon

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TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Traci Thomas 0:08
Welcome to The Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I’m your host Traci Thomas, and it is time for everyone’s favorite episode of the year. The 10 best books of 2023 list. I brought in two guests this year to help me put this list together. Our first guest is Adam Vitcavage. He is the creator and host of the Debutiful podcast, a literary podcast that focuses on debut authors and their first books. I’m also joined by MJ Franklin, he is an editor at the New York Times Book Review- very fancy stuff. What you need to know about both MJ and Adam is that they are serious professional readers. And between the three of us we have read hundreds of books this year to help us put together our very own top 10. We also talk about what we saw in the year of books in 2023. Our predictions for next year, and we share a handful of titles that we’re the most excited about for 2024. Get your pen and paper ready, the book recommendations will be flying or you can just click the link in the show notes to find every single book we talked about on today’s episode. Don’t forget our book club discussion will happen next week on Wednesday, December 27. We will be talking about William Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet with Farah Karim Cooper. Okay, now it is time to name the 10 best books of 2023 with Adam Vitcavage and MJ Franklin.

Alright, everyone, time for all of you all’s favorite episode of the year, the 10 best books of 2023 According to me, and whoever I decided to bring on to give their opinion, this last is always chaos in the best possible way. And I am thrilled because I am joined by two super duper readers. One is Adam Vitcavage who is the creator and host of the podcast Debutiful, which is all about debut books, I think. And I think I’m allowed to say this. It is the best book podcast title ever. And I’m really partial to The Stacks but Debutiful is maybe the greatest thing I’ve ever heard. Adam, welcome.

Adam Vitcavage 2:56
Traci, thank you so much. Yeah, I thought of it years ago when I was working for the government in a gray cubicle, and it gave me hope.

Traci Thomas 3:04
I feel like we might have to resend your invitation. I no longer work for the government. Okay. And then our other guests is MJ Franklin. He is an editor at the New York Times Book Review. He’s all of our bookish streams, he’s living the bookish life, I also have an extra affinity for MJ because he is an identical twin. So I like to think that I could be his mother, though we’re probably the same age. So I don’t think it’s possible. But I like that for us. MJ, welcome.

MJ Franklin 3:36
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I have listened and loved your show. And we’ve spoken on other podcasts. But this is my first time here. So thank you for having me. And I’m excited. I don’t I am awesome. I’m just a huge fan. And we follow each other online. But we’ve never met and so like this is just like, I’m just so excited for this conversation.

Traci Thomas 3:53
I’m so excited to so people, we’re gonna give you our best books. I don’t we don’t know each other’s books. So it could get weird because what if someone says a book I hate and then I have to fight them. That will happen. So nobody knows each other’s books. And we’re gonna give you each give us three. And I’m hoping that at some point, we’re gonna realize that we all have a same shared book. I think we do. I don’t know. We’ll see. Anyways, that being said, before we get into that, I just want to do a quick like intro of each of you from yourself, can you each kind of just tell us your reading tastes, what books you like, what things you’re drawn to, because that always informs these lists. I think so often, like these best lists, it’s like, this is the best book but it’s like, oh, well, I don’t read Romans ever. So how could this be the best list of we’re not you know, so whatever that is, whatever you extra love, or whatever you read a lot of and then whatever you maybe don’t read as much of you can start Adam.

Adam Vitcavage 4:49
Yeah, definitely. Thank you. And thanks again for having me. I read I guess literary fiction, in quotes, like whatever that means. I like So, the books I like are all about vibes, like maybe not a lot happens. It’s just like they feel sexy they deal a lot with like siblings and motherhood I’ve discovered over the past few years, just saying a lot of like family turmoil and then found family. But definitely what I care most about is like the writing and how cozy I feel. And that can mean many things. And you read a lot of debuts a lot of debuts. Yeah, it’s a beautiful. One of the books I have in the docket is I guess, a debut but not when they beautiful would normally cover so we’ll see if I got to recommending that. But yeah, okay. Mostly debut literary fiction and memoirs.

Traci Thomas 5:40
Okay, got it. And what about you, MJ?

MJ Franklin 5:42
Yeah, I think Adam and I, we have similar tastes, because I’m also a fiction girly through and through. But I’ve noticed that, like, what I’m gravitating toward in fiction kind of changes year over year, and I think it’s just like my mood and vibes. Usually, always, I love similar to Adam vibey. Kind of sad. Nothing totally happened, a lot of character driven stories, a lot of like psychological deep dives. And a lot of you have just like interior stories. And like I love looking at, like great writing and lush writing. This year, though, I feel like I’ve been drawn a lot to plots. I think that’s, I think, just like the plots of the story has been published this year are phenomenal. And then also, I’m sure both of you feel this way we read so much for work that in my personal reading, I want to keep up in my personal life. I want to maintain the habit of reading, but I don’t want it to feel like work. And so this year, I’ve been gravitating toward a lot of books that feels like watching TV. Something that you just like pulls you in, that like does not let you out of its grabs, still really smart. But just like it just it sinks its teeth in you and can’t let go.

Traci Thomas 7:01
Can you tell us a title of a book that fits that that’s not on your best list?

MJ Franklin 7:06
Yes. So one of those books is my murder by Katie Williams, which is about this like futuristic world where like humans are able to be cloned and the book opens with a woman saying like, she doesn’t feel right in her body. And that’s because she was murdered as part of this killing spree that a serial killer went on. And then her consciousness was cloned and put in another body, but something is askew. And it’s kind of like her fitting in to her surroundings and stepping back into her life. But she’s different. And you’re trying to figure out the mystery of what was going on with a serial killer. And so that is one of those things again, like character driven, she’s trying to fit back into her life. But like that plot setup is spectacular.

Traci Thomas 7:46
I love it. I love it. I love it. I love plot. So people already know this about me. But let me just say it in case you’re new here I am a nonfiction girlie through and through. And this year in particular, I’m judging a nonfiction prize for the LA Times. So I have been reading a ton of 2023 nonfiction, some of it has been horrible. Some of it has been great, but it’s just a lot. I basically stopped reading any fiction that wasn’t for the SAKs book club in May, and have not read to like, I don’t know, any fiction books this year, which is part of the reason I wanted to bring you to on because I know you both read fiction. And I would hate for this list to just be me being like, well, there’s this investigative journalism bug. But when I do read fiction, I do like a lot of plot. I like a lot of setup. I don’t I like character, but I don’t like characters when nothing happens. Like I don’t care how great your characters are, if they’re just like thinking in the woods, like I cannot be with them. Like I’m thinking enough in my own brain. But so that’s that’s sort of those are sort of my biases. And I also read like a ton of books by authors of color, queer authors, authors who are disabled, marginalized in whatever way that the society wants to marginalize people. So So those are sort of my biases. MJ, I want to ask you about the New York Times list. You guys do a list of 100 most notable books, but then you do the Big Bad Boy lists, which is the New York Times top 10, five fiction, five nonfiction. Can you tell us a little bit about how the list comes to be?

MJ Franklin 9:21
Yes. So I love this question. Because coming up with a list is probably like the single most fun thing that we do all year. And that’s just because it’s a huge book club. That’s like, yeah, essentially what it is. Throughout the year, we’re constantly just like reading just for our jobs. And then if something stands out to us spectacular, we like flag it as the best books contender and then talk about it. We meet truly all year it starts off at the beginning of the year. We meet about once a month, and then in the second half of the year. We meet about once a week. So it’s just like a lot of reading. And Samoas I love this book. I think it’s great. Eat, and then we read it and talk about it. And throughout the year, books come on the list of books come off the list, sometimes books come off the list and come back. But at the end of the day, it’s just like a discussion about books that at least one person thinks is great. And I think that we’re all like super smart and have great days. And so like, that’s, it’s always a gift being able to be like, Oh, this smart person that I love and respect loves this book. I’m gonna read it too. And then we talk about it.

Traci Thomas 10:31
Because you, how many of you are there? And how many of you have to read a book for it to be in contention?

MJ Franklin 10:38
Yes, that’s a great question. Oh, I want to say there are. Fifth.

Traci Thomas 10:46
Okay. It’s all editors. Is that is that the rule?

MJ Franklin 10:50
So it’s changed actually, this year, a little bit used to be because the book review had its own list, and the critics have their own lists. And now it’s kind of just like, brought up the critics and editors join other staff members join. So we usually say just the staff on it. I don’t know if there’s a number of like, how many people have to love a book, everyone reads it, like the books or at least read into the books? And then usually there’s a cohort? If not, if not everybody, a large cohort who like kind of champions the books and talk about it. You want to read into everything and or read everything. Because at the end of the day, we have to vote and that’s the end of the list the process, it comes down to have-

Traci Thomas 11:38
Straight up vote yes or no? Is it ranked choice? This is the part that has never quite I’m like, how do you pick?

MJ Franklin 11:45
It’s not a yes or no, in that everyone gets like, we get to vote on what we’d say is our five. And so I get five fiction, five nonfiction. Like everyone, but so everyone gets a vote. And then at the end, we kind of see what consensus has emerged. And then that’s our list. What that means. So is that sometimes like your absolute favorite book, the book that you have stumped for it does not make the list. That’s happened to me before. And it always feels bad, because you’re like, I love this book. But I didn’t. Yeah, at the end of the day, you’re like, Oh, it did get a serious consideration. And there are these other books that are also great on this list, too. And so yeah, it’s it’s it’s a, it’s also a blind. So yeah, it’s a chaotic process. But it’s really, really fun.

Traci Thomas 12:41
I have one more follow up question that I’ll get off this. Yeah. I had a sense that that was how the process worked a little bit, because some of the books I’ve been like, Oh, I understand how that book could win. Because it’s not the most like polarizing book. And it’s good, but I feel like it probably got a lot of votes. And so it just made it you know, like that kind of thing, which I totally understand. My question is when you all are doing book club, is there like persuasion going on? Are you like stumping for books? And if so, have you noticed that that you don’t have to name names, but that there are certain people who you work with whose books end up making it because they’re particularly like persuasive book are yours?

MJ Franklin 13:20
And is a great question. Everyone was trying to persuade everyone else on their books, because like, at the end of the day, it’s like we we’re not just talking about like, here’s a great book, we have to convince people to try to make votes every time a book is nominated. Like, even if it seems like everyone, like loves it, we are still arguing so vigorously. And that’s because everyone can love it. But at the end of the day, it’s only five fiction and five nonfiction that’s not a lot of space, and everyone reads a lot. We’re so passionate about a great number of books. And so, for me, it’s always important to remember I’m not just like, preaching, I bought a book, I am trying to sell it. I’m trying to convince people that not only is it great, but it should be one of their five. So I am always trying to argue and convince people. Other people are trying to convince everyone else to the point of whether there are people whose books always make the list because there are potentially great our viewers. I don’t know if there’s any one person that has emerged, you definitely though, figure out people’s argumentative styles, and everyone on the desk is like intimidatingly eloquent. Yeah, and so like, I like I’ll leave a meeting and be like, I don’t know if I’m convinced on that book. Wow, I am convinced on your pitch.

Traci Thomas 14:37
I love that. Okay, Adam, now you’re in the hot seat. I want to talk about debuts a little bit because I feel like I struggle you know, I’m I’m so obsessed with award season and with best books of the year lists like it is my passion when when the first National Book Awards list comes out. I’m like, fuck yes, let’s go. I start deciding when I’m gonna read I get so excited. And I feel like what happened? ends with debuts. And my observation is that either there’s this like push to put debuts on these lists to like celebrate a new author, at the expense of maybe like an established author, or there is like no debuts because they’re just not that good yet. And like, that’s okay, because it’s your first book and like, Hello. So I’m wondering like, how you see debut books place in sort of the end of the year lists and awards? And also, well, us the second part later, go ahead.

Adam Vitcavage 15:36
Sure. I think what for one I love like center for fiction does their first novel prize, celebrating very specifically first novel, so I think we tweeted about this. If they write ya, and now they’re reading an adult novel, or short story collection, or creative nonfiction, by like that they like identify exactly what they’re like, eating like the National Book Award.

Traci Thomas 15:59
I just-

Adam Vitcavage 16:02
I feel I feel there are some debuts that are damn good and that are masterpieces. Yeah, and deserve their spot. But I do feel and I think this was like the Emmys and Oscars, like the shiny new thing is always fun to nominate. And so I don’t know if awards are thinking about, we’re going to slot in a debut to celebrate a new voice or not. I don’t know you’re on a you’re a judge. Do you look for the shiny new name?

Traci Thomas 16:33
I’m a judge in a category that’s very specific. The LA Times is really different than other prizes. They have like 13 or 14. And so my category is current interest nonfiction. So it’s not biography. It’s not history. It’s not science, because they have all those categories. It’s like memoir and politics and whatever it’s like, it’s, I’m not thinking about who wrote it, I’m really thinking about like, does this book fit as a currently interesting book, they at the LA Times, they do have a first Fiction Prize. So it’s any first fiction. So that could be short stories, or full length novel, but I personally love that because I think first fiction is something that should be celebrated. But I don’t know that necessarily. First fiction is going to hold up against 10th fiction, you know, exactly. And some do like last year, they had a first they had a first person’s first fiction made it on the best fiction list. So. Okay, also, I want to just know, what about debuts is interesting to you. Why did you want to spend your whole life talking about debuts?

Adam Vitcavage 17:33
I think it came from when I was writing more freelance at outlets like electric letter lit hub, or the millions or whatever. A lot of what I wanted to know, in my conversations, were those basic Hey, who are you? That’s like, what drives you? Like this took you 10 years to write? Why did you keep with it, and I feel if you’re interviewing or when I was interviewing, or chatting with, I don’t consider it an interview. When I was chatting with people who are on the third, fourth, fifth book, it was a lot of plot questions, which don’t necessarily interest me or a lot of talking about their cachet kind of comes into it. And I felt because I don’t necessarily consider myself part of the literary world or I didn’t at the time. I think I faked it and got into it somehow that debuts have that impostor syndrome as well into because like I talked to them before their books published or, or Goodreads blows up or before hercus review. And it’s just like we’re just vibing and talking about life and passion as opposed to they don’t have their answers down pat yet. Yeah, always fun.

Traci Thomas 18:42
I love when I get to interview someone like really before their book. I’m like, oh, what and they’re like, really struggling through the answer. Like I love it here. I know you have and then I hear them like on you know, fresh air and I’m like, okay. You had your meeting with your publicist.

Adam Vitcavage 18:56
Yeah, exactly. And I feel Yeah, and I think it goes back to my reading style with the vibes right I just like the person and the book is cool, but I want to know more about them. Yeah, then their main characters choice on page 54.

Traci Thomas 19:13
I can definitely relate to this. i i You said that nicer. I actually just say that I’m very nosy just tell me everything. Yeah. Okay, let’s get to our list. You guys I’m so excited. We will go in whatever order I decide and I’m deciding the atom you’re gonna go first with your first pick.

Adam Vitcavage 19:30
All right, I will grab my book and show it to you all even though video is not part of the podcast. I think it’s no secret or maybe it is but my my my list here is going to be very similar to the day beautiful. Yes, that’s my list. But all night pharmacy by Ruth medio offski. My number one book of the year and I don’t think it’s getting the credit it deserves.

Traci Thomas 19:52
I think you’ve never even heard of it.

Adam Vitcavage 19:53
Oh no, no, that’s fair. There’s so many books out there so that it can went over the summer and it’s about like toxic sibling relationships. One sibling goes missing the other is trying to find her. It’s like a drug fueled sexy vibe. La story. Oh, with like, emigration and coming through and where their places in the world. But yeah, Ruth’s writing is just all like, I don’t know. I keep saying sexy vibes, but her book is the sexiest book. I read it. It’s not about sex at all.

Traci Thomas 20:32
I love this emoji. Did you read it?

MJ Franklin 20:34
I have not read that one. But when you said it’s about toxic sibling relationships, I was like, count me on any type of like, very fraught family dynamic. I will eat up that book. Yeah, that sounds great.

Traci Thomas 20:48
MJ, you’re next.

MJ Franklin 20:50
I’m going in a strange order. Because also Yeah, I feel like I’ve mentioned a bunch of books that I love. And there are some books I haven’t mentioned, I don’t want to be too repetitive. So I’m gonna start off with a book I don’t think I’ve talked about but I loved tremendously. And that is Birnam Wood. Oh, this is by Eleanor Catton, who won the Booker Prize for her novel, the luminaries. And this is another one of those plot forward books or so it seems. The book follows a guerilla gardening collective. They’re trying to reclaim unused land and plant crops and all of that stuff to kind of support like the ecosystem. And so it follows this group of people. It’s made up of a leader, mira, her assistant, Shelley, there’s a bunch of other students, but there, those are the two main characters from that group. There is a former collective member turned journalist who’s orbiting them. And then there is this weird, enigmatic billionaire who buys his plot of land discovers that the gorilla Collective is on it. And it’s about their weird interactions. There is devious billionaires, there are drones and there are looming or a past eco disasters. But what I love about this book is that it sets up this like larger than life like cartoonish almost plot, and then it kind of totally sidesteps it to explore it. The characters, when I knew I was in for this book was at the start, and you see this really dynamic like tennis match and an internal tennis match. For some of these characters. Mara is the leader. She knows that Shelly though kind of wants to leave, Shelly wants to leave, but she doesn’t want to let her friend mirror down. And so Mira is like I’m gonna give Shelly space while Mira is gone scouting out on location, she sees this journalist Tony come by, she knows that Tony has this past relationship with Mira. So she’s like, maybe if I hook up with Tony, the mirror will be mad at me. And she’ll kick me out of the group. And I don’t have to leave, because I want to become my own person. But I want to let this friend down. And so there are these like very rich, complicated interpersonal dynamics that are happening. And that is the thrust of the novel. All staged around these like, yeah, again, larger than life plot. And so it’s like, introduces plot, character, character, character character, and then the end escalates. So tremendously. It goes from zero to 100. And I don’t want to spoil anything, do you not? I will say I closed the book, and I just sat there, my jaw was dropped, and I was stunned. That was another quick thing. Like I love a book that will like take you to 100 and be like, No, I’m gonna deal with it. I’m done. Your problem. That’s Burnham buoyed by Eleanor Catton.

Traci Thomas 23:38
I love it. I love it. Okay, one of the things that I loved this year were essay collections. I thought there were so many fantastic essay collections. I cannot name all of them. I’m going to do quick honorable mention for creep by Miriam Gerba biting the hand by Julia Lee. Her job Butch Blues by La mia ah, loves all those books. But my pick is ordinary notes by Christina sharp, beautiful essay collection. It’s the pun is just sitting there for me. It is so sharp. She’s Christina sharp. The book is so sharp. It is a it’s got pictures. She takes these daily notes. And the notes are published. And they are she’s an academic. She’s really smart. And I have not read her other book in the week, or one of her other books in the week. But everyone tells me is really smart. And I was very intimidated, even by this book. So I was like, this is a very smart person. And you know, sometimes you read like academics work and you’re like, God, I just it’s too hard. But because it’s these little notes, everything is so digestible. She’s critiquing black representation a lot throughout the book like she talks about, you know, Brian Stevenson’s lynching Museum, she talks about Kara Walker she talks about Claudia Rankin. She’s a little mean to people throughout the book. work, which I love. But it’s also like she, like, publishes like a letter from someone. And like, she just says it serves her point. But I have heard it described a little bit as a burn book. I think that like if you’re in the academic space, because academics all know each other and might feel a little more personal to me, it felt very critical. And it didn’t bother me. But I have heard academics be like, it was mean. That’s what I liked. But it’s also about her relationship with her mother who’s passed away. And you know, about being like a reader and loving books. And there’s like, there’s an image of her copy of beloved in the book that’s like, all flagged and worn and it’s just so beautiful. And I just found it to be like a really beautiful book. And it’s one of those books that when I read it, it just was the right thing to read at the time and just felt really fulfilling and also, again, really critical and I just loved I just loved it. I really, really loved it.

MJ Franklin 26:02
I haven’t read this book, but I have seen it in the bookstore and it is like such a document and just like dense-

Traci Thomas 26:09
Photo paper, right? Yeah, cuz there’s lots of pictures thrown at-

MJ Franklin 26:13
Even the the physical object of this book has its this gravity to it. It reminds me I have you read I’m just asked by Claudia Rankin. Yes. It seems very similar to that. Love to justice. And so I’m excited to dive into this one.

Traci Thomas 26:29
Oh, yeah. This one is really good. Okay, we’re gonna take a quick break and be right back. Okay, we’re back. Changing the order. MJ. What is your second pick?

MJ Franklin 26:41
My second pick is the fraud by Zadie Smith.

Traci Thomas 26:45
Oh, okay. This made the New York Times 10.

MJ Franklin 26:49
Yes, yes. And a lot of lists, too.

Traci Thomas 26:53
Yes, yes.

MJ Franklin 26:55
it is the return of Zadie Smith and let’s talk about plot. There’s plot plot top off. In this book, I’m going to try to do it justice, but also be very quick. This follows a woman Eliza to che, who is the housekeeper and then also cousin of a famous writer of famous Victorian writer, William Ainsworth. Eliza is a writer herself. And she’s trying to break into this like crowd. But because she’s a woman, she is kind of cast aside. She’s also poor, her husband died and kind of left her penniless. And so the fact that she is the housekeeper for this cousin is kind of viewed as a generosity and itself. And so it’s about her trying to become a writer, but she becomes obsessed with what is called the tichborne trial, which the long story short is that there is this fraud trial of this man who claims to be the claimant of a family fortune. There is a son who disappeared on a shipwreck and everyone presumed he was dead, and his mother put out reward for to find him and this man surfaces. The trick is, the man has none of the background of the son who disappeared is missing a tattoo that the Son definitely had, does not know the languages that the Son knew. It looks different. And so it’s just like fraud trial, that becomes like this, like cultural fixation, and has a similar vibe and parallel to like Magga and Trumpism. And like the fervor surrounding that and so Eliza is kind of pulled into this trial and the news of it because she is interested in this man Andrew Bogle, who was formerly enslaved man, who was one of the servants for one of the tichborne and it becomes a key witness in this trial. So again, oh, a lot of plot. But what I loved about it is Xavi Smith has this like incredible ability to Layer Layer, Layer, Layer Layer. And that’s what this is. It’s a historical novel. It’s written in this Victorian at em, it’s exploring Trumpism it’s exploring class, it’s exploring gender is exploring, like slavery and transatlantic slavery and it’s exploring the stories that we tell and who we believe and why. It’s about the power of crowds. It’s all of these things and yet Sadie Smith is always funny. There are some there are some salacious sex that happens with this book. Zaidi is perceptive. She is funny like she is you hear this book and you think it’s going to be weighed down by so much history and yet it is so lively. The one thing I will say is this is an active reading experience. I started this book and I was trying to read it on the subway and I just couldn’t get into it because so much was happening and I was not did not have my 100% Focus. And when I finally just like sat down and like did dedicated reading time during nothing out. I got so poor pulled into it. I think it’s remarkable. It’s it feels I never knew what this phrase meant, like a major novel, like so many people say that. And I’m like, what does it mean? This is a book that makes a big swing, that is thinking through big ideas is the return of a huge, major novelist and it feels like a major novel. So I loved it.

Traci Thomas 30:22
I love that. Okay, Adam, go ahead.

Adam Vitcavage 30:26
I really loved the short story collection company by Shannon Sanders, which is a linked collection about a family and it’s all about, like, lived in spaces, and who’s hosting and who’s coming in, and the interactions between family members and guests. And it just felt, I like Link short story collections. Because, you know, they read like novels, you’ll see the same characters over and over again. But Shannon really nailed how to write a story every single time because I feel like with certain sort of stories, you could feel this was referred page counts, this was cetera, et cetera. But she really blew me away. I first encountered her when she won the Dow Prize for Best Debut short story. I interviewed her back then and just to see her career grow was super special. And then to see the book actually be good was great, because it’s her debut book. Yeah, sir. debut book. And so the doubt that Robert J. Tao prizes for the first story published I see, just single story. Yeah. And then it’s an anthology, we had this just how she understood family is was super important to me and seeing the subtle shade. promiscuity promise, happiness without going over the top. And each story just blew me away.

Traci Thomas 32:02
I love that this was that was on my list of books I wanted to read this year until I had to fiction. It was literally like on my stack. And then I got the ask and I was like, Okay, well see. You never know my big 2024 goal is to go back and read the things I didn’t get to read this year. The Zadie Smith is one of them. Like I didn’t I just didn’t get to, you know, anyways. I don’t have to explain to you. Okay, my next pick is probably my favorite book of the year. It will be no surprise to listeners of this show. though. I feel like this book did not get the justice it deserved in the end of year lists across the board. Because I think this book is fucking fantastic. It is called We were once a family by Roxana as Garyun. It’s about the Hart family murders. Roxana did the show. So if you’ve listened to show you’ve heard the episode, but for those who haven’t. It’s about the whole family murders. What people will remember was that two women, two white women adopted six black children. And then they drove them off a cliff in 2018. The story was also notable because one of the children was famous for a picture hugging a police officer with a sign that said like free hugs, and he was crying. Roxanna does the thing that everybody is like, I wish True Crime could do this, which is like humanize the victims, and tell their story in a context of how could this happen, right? Like, that’s always the thing, like, how could this happen? And she’s literally like, well, you want to know how child separation works in America, specifically in Texas, because that’s where both sets of the siblings were from. She’s like, Here you go. This is who the judge was, this is how it works. This is what happened. This is why they were taken out of their home. This is why they weren’t with their family. This is why these women were allowed to have these children. And of course, she also talks about the women who killed everyone who murdered everyone. But she really focuses on the the birth families of these children and who they were before they were taken away. And there’s one brother to one because it’s two separate sets, three siblings each. There’s a brother to one of the sets of siblings who is not taken away. He’s old enough. He’s like in juvenile detention or whatever. And so he doesn’t end up getting taken away. So he’s this like, Lone Survivor child, and he’s where the title comes from. The book is heartbreaking. The other thing that I love about the book besides just like the great reporting and storytelling, and just the premise, in general, is that it’s short. So I never, I never was like, Okay, I’m ahead of her. Because so often with nonfiction, I sometimes find that I’m like, Okay, I know exactly where we are and where we’re going. And there’s 95 pages left. So exactly what are you planning to do with those 95 pages? Not this book. It’s like a tight maybe to 20 to 50. And I read it, I thought I was gonna get to read it slowly because it was so intense, but it’s one of those books that because it’s so intense. You want to read it in a day or two, because you actually can’t sit with the story for too long. Like it’s so intense and so devastating. And so just like, What the fuck are we doing to our children that I feel that you have to read it quickly. And a lot of people I recommended it to were like, I was going to take it slow. And then I was finished it in 48 hours. Like, it’s just, it’s so good. So if I could press one book into people’s hands, that’s the one.

MJ Franklin 35:17
I was gonna say this book sounds great, but I’m afraid

Traci Thomas 35:22
it’s a little bit depressing. But I mean, here’s the thing, you know, the outcome up front, and it’s really less about the murders themselves and more about like the system that lets something like this happen. And so it’s heartbreaking in that sense, because you’re, you’re sitting with the families of these children and like the way they were treated before the children taken away, but also after the murders, it’s just like, but it’s so good. If you start it, I think it’ll be almost impossible to not finish it. Like it’s one of those books where you’re like, I don’t even want to read this, but here I am awake at 3am because I gotta finish writing this down.

MJ Franklin 35:56
I’m going to be reading that.

Traci Thomas 35:57
Yes, it’s so good. Okay, Adam, you’re next.

Adam Vitcavage 36:02
I call an audible and ask you to a question based on your you can cut this to you. You mentioned Tracy that you know, read books super fast if they get you and MJ You mentioned having to read on the subway and then but you need to focus what is your reading habits. I am just curious and we can finally cut this. I read like before we’re in bed, it’s like my exercise. At the gym. I read bed before I even get out. I read at lunch and then like at night I have like three reading sessions a day I treat it like the gym, but how do you to read?

Traci Thomas 36:34
I so I have two small children. And so I really changed my reading life. I sometimes read in the morning though sometimes I do get up and get on my peloton. I try to read at night, I do listen to a lot of audiobooks. So like I like to go on a hike. There’s a hike near where my kids go to school. So I’ll drop them off and go on a hike. And I’ll listen to my audiobook at two point speed. So I’ll get like two hours in of a book. Or when I’m cooking or folding laundry. And then I my best reading it happens in the bathtub. That is where I read the most. I’m the most focused or on an airplane. Because I never buy the Wi Fi. So but at home I read at night before bed I tried to read my goal every day is to read a minimum of 10 pages, which I know sounds like not a lot for a person who reads 100 Plus books a year. But I don’t like to not hit my goals. So I set my goal really low in the hopes that at least every day, I will get 10 pages then a lot of days, I get 250 pages and it’s just like that is my bare minimum that I asked myself.

MJ Franklin 37:38
That sounds like I’m still stunned by the two to x audio book like how do you consume that much information that quick. I’m

Traci Thomas 37:47
a fast talker. I like fast talkers. When it’s slow, I just zone out. And I used to be like a 1.5. But in the last year I’ve gotten really it’s like a skill. Like the more you do it, the faster you can go.

MJ Franklin 37:59
I don’t know if I have an organized way of reading for myself. And I specify that because I feel like I said I’m like very obsessive about separating work reading from personal reading, just because they’re different modes of reading, when I’m reading for work is this kind of like more intense, I get the type of searching that I’m doing. And like thinking about other things, something about potential assignment, all this other stuff. And when I’m doing personal reading, I really am just reading to like, consume, embrace the store like to funnel into that book. It’s like I’m one is reading for research than others reading for pleasure. So I separate them out. For my personal reading, I don’t have any organized system other than just like I always have a book nearby. There are some mornings where I wake up and I’m like, Oh, that was really good. I’m gonna wake up early and finish this book before I have to get on the subway. Other times, I’m like I running late. So I’m just gonna jump on the subway. And now that it’s winter, I have codes that are big enough to fit little novels in my pocket. I will read on the subway. Sometimes I’ll take myself on solo reading dates to a restaurant or bar and I’ll bring a book and I’ll sit and read. Other times I’ll come back home and borrow on my couch and I read there’s no real rhyme or reason I just tried to always be in the habit of reading in some way, shape or form. And so I guess my approach is more like more chaos mode. The one challenge is I don’t read a ton of audiobooks. And that’s for no other reason other than the like, I have so many books on hand that I want. And I could physically sit and read those. But I can’t listen or I can’t read podcasts and I want to consume podcasts. So my audio time is dedicated for podcasts and none of my reading time when I do have an opportunity to just like to sit and can’t be listening to anything that I start reading. So that’s kind of that’s my approach.

Traci Thomas 39:56
Ok I have one more follow up question for you. How do you decide what is reading for work and reading for pleasure for you like is it just backlist is pleasure and anything that’s like forthcoming is is work or if it’s for the price, the 10 best books like you know, you have to whatever.

MJ Franklin 40:10
For me, I’m curious what you think to Adam. For me it’s like this personal feeling of, it’s this, this vibe of just like I am reading to not do anything for this. Sometimes that means backlist. Sometimes that’s like, I’ve already read it for work purposes. And now I just want to go back and slow down and like read it at my pace and like do my my annotating and not necessarily other types of research. It’s this internal feeling where you just go it’s for me, it’s similar to like, when the difference between like reading something for school versus reading something for yourself, when you read something for school, like you’re taking notes for a certain purpose or taking notes, don’t argue about it, you’re taking notes, to be able to like come up with a thesis, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And like, that’s just like a different type of mode. And I think that’s why a lot of people are like, I read this in school and didn’t love it. And then I picked this back book back up later, and did. So I just wanted to be like, This is why I love those novels that are just character. It’s like emotional feeling, and like honesty and intensity and constant searching of like, you know, I’m reading this for me, and there are times where I’ll read a book. First, I’ll read into it to figure out whether I want to assign it, then I’ll read into it again for factchecking purposes, and then I will read it a third time. And that’s just for me. And that third time is that’s the time that I will put it on my list as like a book I have read those first few times I do not consider.

Traci Thomas 41:38
So Adam, how do you decide?

Adam Vitcavage 41:39
Yeah, like backlist, or like the JD Smith novel is reading for fun because I know I’m not going to have to think about it and ask questions or whatever. I also do a theme of three or four books that I read throughout the year. And this year was a gothic literature. So Frankenstein, Dracula. Last year, it was the see. And so that’s just I read slow. Those are the ones I’m not like trying to get through and take my time. I also do a lot of Star Wars audiobooks that is entertaining to me, I do not have to think about these characters. I know who they are from the movies. So that is what I do a lot of to shut my brain off. Not that they’re not good books. And yeah, but uh, yeah, that’s kind of how I decide. So big authors. I know I’m not going to talk to like, Jasmine, Ward’s book is one of my favorites this year. And I that was cool. It’s just cool to sit with and not think about.

MJ Franklin 42:35
What about you, Tracy, you do so much reading for your show for this prize?

Traci Thomas 42:39
Yeah. So the prize is different, that feels like work for real for real. And I’m going to exclude that because that is a list that I’m reading from. So that’s like, very clearly delineated as work. So in previous years, and future years reading for me, I have a list of books that I think that I want to have people on the show and like that list starts. I think it started in April this year, my first book was martyr by Kobe Akbar, because Clint Smith mentioned it. And that’s when I, that’s the book that made me start my list for the year. And so when I read a book that I’m like, Oh, I think I might want to have that person on I’ll take notes. So I guess that then becomes work. But a lot of times, I’m just reading to read and everything I read sort of feels like work because I post a review of every book that I finish on my Instagram, and anything that I read is potentially something that I might end up talking about, like, I like to read cookbooks for fun, but I read a cookbook about pies this year. And I loved it so much that I was like I want to have the author on but I was just reading it to read it like, like so it was a pleasure read at the time, and then it became a fun read. That happened that’s happened to me quite a bit this year. We’re all read a book. And then like, for example, Jasmine Ward, I read the book just because I was like, I want to read her book. And then I got an opportunity to have her on the show. So I was like but I did actually take notes the first time I read it because I was like I’m putting it into the universe that she’s gonna come on the show. But so I don’t know I try to make everything I read sort of be like pleasure though. Sometimes I have someone coming on the show that I was really excited about because of who they are. And then I started the book and I don’t like the book and I have to finish it which I really fucking hate and then that’s when it really feels like work because for the prize I don’t have to finish anything. I just have to start

MJ Franklin 44:22
for you since you are reading so many books both for pleasure but could be a potential like gas your book pick for your show and then also you’re reading so many books probably for work that also seems to align with their interests for you is that distinction like how do you figure out like what’s quote unquote work and what’s pleasure like when

Traci Thomas 44:41
I don’t really I don’t really think the only difference is that books that I think are for work, I end up taking notes on otherwise, I don’t really have a distinction like for example I picked up we were once a family because i Someone told me that they thought I would like it and I loved it so much and then immediately reached out to Roxanne his team but because I I was liking it so much, I started taking notes because I was like, oh my god, I would love to have her on. So sometimes it can morph. But also like, if a book for me if a book is good, it’s for pleasure. And if a book is not good, it becomes for work. You know, like, if I’m enjoying something, I’m like, This is awesome. Regardless of if I know I’m gonna have the person on or not. And if a book starts to feel tedious, then I’m like, this is for work. Like I just finished a book that I absolutely hated. Actually, this happened to me twice this year, two books I absolutely hated, but I was like, I have to finish them because I really want to review them, but I don’t want to review them without finishing them. So then I was like, I’m just gonna fucking finish these books. I could talk shit later. Like, and that definitely feels like work. For sure. Okay, back to our list back to our list. Adam go.

Adam Vitcavage 45:43
Yeah, I’m gonna call an audible and it’s I guess it’s still a debut. This was when crack was king. Donovan. I don’t normally cover reported nonfiction with a beautiful it’s usually like I said, literary creative, etc. creative nonfiction, memoirs. But this I picked up while I was in New York, actually, for my day job. And I had heard so many good things. I think it was long listed already by the time for some awards, you know, the National bulk of National Book Award. Yeah. And I saw and I was like, Okay, I’m gonna get it to read on the subway because I didn’t have I didn’t bring a book with me. I don’t bring books when I’m on vacation. So like, or work trips, which is what I know is that’s like what I read. I opposite for me. I mean, I’ll usually anyway, but when crack was King Donovan followed for people, Elgin, Lenny, Kurt and Shawn, through the crack epidemic and beyond. And before and it wasn’t a linear memoir or anything, it just, I think, like the press, like it’s Kaleidoscope scopic. And it is, and I usually think that’s like a bullshit term that people throw on for many things. But yeah, I was blown away. I feel like we know nothing about crack, except for what white media has told us. Yeah. And this really shaped how I thought about presidencies about media in the 90s, like, after everything about jokes that I was told as a kid or that I said, right, I think in the, in the prologue Donovan talks about like crackhead right how we just use it for someone who’s acting goofy, but I don’t know. It really shaped me more than any other book this year, probably. And I didn’t even like, you know, I just picked it up on a whim because of an award, long list, which whatever, we can go back to that conversation. But yeah, Donovan next, Ramsey, blew me away. And like, honestly change how I think about an entire timeline of people and an era.

Traci Thomas 47:46
Yeah, I’m like grinning so big, because this was the book that I took out of my top three. And I was like, I’m really upset about this, because I loved the book. And I loved on him. And he also did the podcast this year. And he’s so smart, and so fantastic. And if you haven’t listened to my episode, listen to it. But also listen to him on everything else he did. He did so much media. So good. I do like a list every year of my like, favorite books, but I couch it through the questions of the podcast. And one of the questions I always ask is, what’s the book you’d require the President to read? And this is the book that I would want Joe Biden to read, because I want him to sit in the fucking corner and think about what he did. Because he did a lot in this book and in the era. So did you read it? MJ?

MJ Franklin 48:29
I haven’t. And again, this is why I love like listening to your show and this episode, specifically, because I always come away with so many book recommendations. So I’m gonna add this to my list too.

Adam Vitcavage 48:40
I’m glad I decided to throw it in because I was gonna list all of like my debuts from the beautiful but yeah, this just, I mean, it was a debut. So I’m glad I read it, but I wouldn’t crack was King, the president should read. Yes, for sure.

Traci Thomas 48:52
All right, here is my third Peck. I struggled you guys I really struggled. I couldn’t decide. But I love this book. I loved it so much. It’s called country of the blind by Andrew Leyland. It is a what I call a memoir plus, which is like memoir plus reporting. And he has a degenerative eye disease called RP. And he writes about slowly becoming blind. He’s diagnosed as a teenager, when he gets to like, much more adulthood. He started to use a cane, he becomes legally blind. He still has some of his vision, but he talks a lot about like, what that even means, like what legally blind means and why he’s so confused because he always thought when you’re blind, all you see is just black, like you don’t see anything. So he talks about some of that stuff. But what makes this book spectacular is it’s not the memoir part, which is great. It’s the plus part. He goes to different blind communities and he goes to like the big like blind association that does all the lobbying and he goes to blind activists and he goes to Got a home where they teach people who have become blind how to be self sufficient. And you know, they have to wear blinders the whole time. And they learn how to cross the street, and they learn how to cook for themselves and do all these things. And it’s sort of this, the whole book ends up becoming. And again, he was on the show, we talked about this about blind thought, like, what does it mean to be culturally blind, because there’s so much about like the Deaf culture and deaf community. But there isn’t that same thing in the blind community, at least as much spoken about. So we kind of like delve into that. And he also talks a lot about his own ableism, his wife’s ableism ableism, within the blind community sort of dissenting opinions about closed captioning. And it’s just a really immersive, like, trip into a world that I really had not seriously considered, like, I really, if I’m being honest, had not really thought a lot about blind people and blindness in this way. It’s also beautifully written, like, he is such a gifted writer, I was deeply moved by this book, this is one of those books that I picked up, and I read, and I immediately was like, I have to get Andrew Leland on the show. So I cannot recommend this book more highly for people. Especially, I mean, I think for people who have vision problems, or like who have blindness or or some form, this book is really powerful. I think for people who have good vision, very good vision, medium vision, you know, wear glasses, but not you know, are not blind. I think this book is hugely important for those of us who fall into those categories to read and think about because you can not only talk about blindness, but you can also expand out a lot of different abilities. There’s a whole section on accessibility and accommodations that changed so much within the way that I was thinking and made me realize, like, Oh, I’m kind of getting this wrong. Like, I hadn’t thought about the scope of what an accommodation means. And also, I hadn’t thought about all the ways I’ve been accommodated and been and felt entitled to accommodation. He talks about at one of these, like large blind conferences, they keep they they pay the electricity bill. And he’s like, that’s for sighted people. That’s an accommodation we make for sighted people. We don’t need to pay the electricity bill to have the lights on all day. We are blind. And like, like little things like that, where you’re like, right, of course, and I if I walked in there would be like, What the fuck? Why are the lights off? What you know, and it’s like, we don’t treat that same those same needs for accommodation for the disabled in the same way that we expect to be as able bodied people accommodated, so I just love

MJ Franklin 52:38
Traci, there are a few books that I associate so closely with you because of how passionately you speak about them. One of them is I hope to get the title right little devil in America. Oh yeah. Jerky. Yeah. You like that for me? Like you are not the author of that book. But that is your book, right?

Traci Thomas 52:56
I am honored someone tell him someone cross off me. Same on all the copies. I love it.

MJ Franklin 53:01
This book is one of those books. I associate country of the blind with you because I remember your post I remember your episode like use Have you speak so passionately about it. But like it makes me I immediately went and bought it. I haven’t read it yet, but I have it. And I’m like this is Traci’s book.

Traci Thomas 53:18
I love that because I am I’m honored because the book is so good. Nothing makes me happier than when people associate me with a really good book. But sometimes people associate me with a book that’s like kind of mid. And I’m like, Oh, I guess my review was not clear. Like, like, okay, that’s for myself.

MJ Franklin 53:35
My third book is why and by Esther ye Oh, I save this for last because I feel like I’ve spoken about it a lot. But for me this is this is my Book of the Year. This is the book I loved so much the book that I have told everyone about even if I know that they’re like, probably not going to like it. And I don’t think this book is for everyone. But even if they don’t like it, I’m like, go read this book. The book is about a woman. I think she’s American. She’s living in Berlin and she becomes obsessed with a member of a kpop band. And I phrase that specifically because she would say she is not a fan of the band. She is not a fan girl she is obsessed with specifically this person. And she approached her life to follow and find him so she moves to Korea. He has like left the group and disappeared and so she’s on the hunt for him. The book is so weird. Like her her obsession with this person is a really her like struggles and figuring out who she is. She’s able to better understand herself through this figure. And she’s better able to like understand the world and like she feels lost and aimless. And so there are all these moments where like she kind of pseudo becomes this person, when I say the book is so weird, I mean, like there’s a scene early on in the book where she’s like having sex with her boyfriend, and she dissociates as she imagines that she is this person. But then the way that’s written about in the book is it reads like the boyfriend is now having sex with this Kpop member because that’s how she understands herself. And it’s so strange. And so you’re reading it. And you’re like, Oh, this is like a kind of wild story about fan culture. And like the boys, they have this like, silly name and they call their fans I think their livers because they say that like they’re not just fans, they’re like a vital organ to them sustaining themselves. Like it’s, it’s very ridiculous, but this is the character starts writing fanfiction. So you delve into this fanfiction world. And so you’re reading it and you’re like, Oh, this is a wild romp about fan culture. And then all of a sudden, I was like, Wait a second, no one’s not. This is about like, how we know ourselves. And like, where we find meaning and an increasingly secular world. And like, all you start seeing this like religious metaphor with this person. It’s so smart. It’s so weird. It feels I was talking with someone about it. And they said, it feels like it’s turning a corner in fiction. It did like it the way it’s taking these topics that we all are thinking about, like meaning and like fandom and all that stuff. And like pushes it to the absolute extreme is so fascinating. And this is a debut I don’t understand it is this is one of those debuts that is so in my mind, perfect and announces a brand new voice I hope we hear from for a very long time. It’s thoughtful, it’s fun, it hits both of those things I love.

Traci Thomas 56:41
So I love your enthusiasm. I’m I might actually read a novel you guys.

Adam Vitcavage 56:47
Yeah. it was so good. It was one of those debuts where I don’t think I connected with it because of when I read it. And I admit that like there’s a beautiful list is like a very specific point of view. But when I saw her read at the Center for fiction FET before the award ceremony, I think it started to connect with me and I was talking to my partner who I called Lady Day beautiful. She was with me and she’s like.

Traci Thomas 57:10
my husband Mr. stacks.

Adam Vitcavage 57:15
So we both were said I had read it months and months ago and I just hearing it I think it clicked something in my brain hearing her read it. And I just want to throw that out there because art is just so subjective. Yeah, and it could be I was just having a weird week and I didn’t connect with it when I read it or whatever. But anyway, yeah, wi N Yes. I’m glad you recommended it.

Traci Thomas 57:36
our 10th and final book. I I have a feeling that everyone here has at least read this book. I’m gonna go out on a limb it’s been on all the lists. I think of all the books of the year this has been the most listed nominated celebrated book for very good reason. Chain Gang All Stars by Nana Kwame, RJ, Brian Yes, absolutely. Yes, it’s it. I read it before it came out. And I said, Holy shit, the analogy I used was not is Simone Biles, everyone else is doing three flips he’s attempting for. And I think I even said this to him when he was on the show. I was like, I don’t think this novel is perfect. Like, I think this is the novel, like an incredibly ambitious novel by a young author who I am so excited about. It is so ambitious. I think you were saying this about Burnham wood that like it is talking about or know about the fraud. It’s talking about so many things in our society. In our culture, it’s speculative fiction, it’s about they called chain gangs. They’re prisoners who are convicted for 25 years to live or 25 years or more, they can opt into the chain game where they fight to the death and these like American gladiator type fights. If you win, you live, you move on, if you lose, you’re dead. And if you do it for three years, you earn your freedom. And it’s about the culture that would watch this, which is American culture. It’s about the prison system. It’s about capitalism. It’s about this interpersonal relationship at the center between two of the women who are on the same chain gang. And then there’s like all these footnotes about real history and just doing the most in a really fantastic way. So I love this book. I’m thrilled for Nona, because I loved Friday black and I thought the same about him then I was like, This is not a perfect collection. But whatever he does next, I’m gonna read and I think and I think that chain gang is very close to perfect, but like, you know, like, I really loved it, but there were things where I was like, ooh, I wonder what he would do with this in 10 years.

MJ Franklin 59:50
I also loved this book. I have also this is one of those books that I have recommended to everyone as well. And this is what like why no Like you might not like this changing, oftentimes I’m like you will. I remember there was one time I broke my phone and I was trying to get a replacement. And the person’s like, oh, you’re a book editor, like, what should I read? And I recommended this. Like, it’s a book I talked, spoken to people about probably the most. And I feel like I said this. So often, it is such a singular book, which is sounds like, controversial thing to say, because of the Hunger Games ness of it. All right, that’s another book where there’s like, killing and death for sport and entertainment. However, not as political commentary, his directness, his vividness with those action scenes. And like, if you think about the hungry, and to think about, like, where that cuts away, and where not like, not to call me RJ Reynolds does not. There is it’s, it’s taking a huge swing, and it pulls it off. And that’s what I mean by single and like, not a has this like, simultaneously like very, like witty voice, but also very probing and very serious. I think about for instance, in Friday black, like the Finkelstein five, which is about like, it’s like looking at the trials of black kids who have been killed in the name of quote, unquote, self defense. And that one is about this man who like took a chainsaw and killed five kids. And like, There’s something so earnest and serious, but written in this like, fantastic, surreal kind of way. And that’s what this does to me too, like the cloudiness of it does not diminish the pointedness of the political commentary and vice versa. The political commentary does not diminish just how, like absorbing the story is.

Adam Vitcavage 1:01:54
When you said it was your most recommended book, same, that’s what I was thinking, I think I recommended this to every single person who asked me what they should read. Friday, Black is one of my favorite collections. The Finkelstein five is a top five short story of all time for me. It changed me thinking about a short story is this too Oh, this is what you can do with literature. And you can do with fiction. And I always say it takes three books for someone to be a favorite author of mine Nona with two books has surpassed what people have done with 10 books. Flat out I think he’s what his Twitter handle is like King and k is the king of literature. And what he’ll do next will blow us all away.

Traci Thomas 1:02:40
I cannot wait. I cannot wait. He needs to take a rest though. He has been on tour in it. So he’s been doing it. So busy, because it’s so good. Okay, before we get out of here, we always do this at the end of the year, we talk a little bit about what we anticipate for 2024 As far as reading, what kind of books any trends we see coming. And then I want you guys Jim just mentioned maybe two books you’re really excited about for 2024. Are there any? Or do you have any predictions? Are there any things you think that you’re seeing now that might carry over or any? I don’t know, we started doing this like, really during the pandemic? And it was like, Oh, we’re gonna get pandemic novels all the sudden?

MJ Franklin 1:03:18
That’s a great question. My predictions for 2024 I feel like just based off of some of the books I’m seeing getting early buzz, I think there’s gonna be a lot more very sharp satire. And because of my job, I have to like I do a lot of secret reading. I do a lot of reading, but I cannot talk. I can’t say specific titles. I am seeing a lot of very, very sharp, lively satire.

Traci Thomas 1:03:49
There’s literally three that have already popped into my head since you said that sentence. What about you, Adam? Any?

Adam Vitcavage 1:03:56
Yeah, I think we’re going to see a lot of books like Nona who is writing something very serious with a specific twisted point of view that is genre or speculative. But is it really, you know, because it’s like a hairline away from being speculative. So close.

Traci Thomas 1:04:17
Okay, my prediction. And it might actually be 2025. But my prediction is that we are going to get all of the celebrity memoirs we did not want because of the writer strike and the sag strike. I think, at the end of next year, we are getting all the people we didn’t want, it’s coming. And I love a celebrity memoir, so I will be reading many of them. But my big fear is that the end like these books are coming out quick. They were written in two months while they were home, like Kevin Hart. It’s coming. Like though I mean Kevin has a few books but you know, it’s coming the rock it Coming Jennifer Aniston it’s coming. Like I just I don’t care, but I’m gonna get it and I’m gonna read it and I’m gonna hate it. That’s my prediction.

MJ Franklin 1:05:08
You’re so right. I didn’t. Yeah, we are coming.

Traci Thomas 1:05:13
Yeah. Wow. Okay, what are your two books you’re the most excited about that you can talk about? Adam, you go first I’m gonna have to think

Adam Vitcavage 1:05:23
I will go first. I’m going to list two January books just so people can buy them right after this podcast is out. The first book is the story made by Vanessa Chan, which I think is all over the internet. But it is. Yeah, it’s like historical fiction. Just so well written. You’ve read it. Yeah, I’m actually recording a podcast with her in 15 minutes. What are the odds and then Christina cook brought tipsy, which also comes out in January like Jamaican sisters that are estranged dealing with family and then coming together. Again. I love sibling stories. I lived with my sister in our 20s. So I think that has like embedded in myself the strangeness coming together. But yeah, two books, Christina cook and Vanessa Chan, January add them to your TBR list now. Get them next month.

Traci Thomas 1:06:14
All right. MJ.

MJ Franklin 1:06:16
I unfortunately cannot say specific titles that I me personally loved just because I can’t tell you.

Traci Thomas 1:06:23
You haven’t read that, you know are coming that you’re excited about.

MJ Franklin 1:06:27
Yes. And these are ones I think I’m not just excited. I just think everyone who loves literature is excited about them because these are return return novels from big authors. Percival Everett has a new book coming out. I don’t know how he’s writing as much as he’s writing. He’s had like a huge new book every single year for the past few years. Eraser which I just read for the first time earlier this year was just made into American fiction that movie. I don’t know how he’s so prolific and also does not miss ever. And so that’s when I’m just like, I’m very excited to get my hands on and and to dive into and like I will read anything that he writes and the fact that he has another book. I’m like, anticipating that one. And then also, like, Garrett Conley has a new book coming out. He wrote the memoir, boy race, and he has a novel coming out. Helen Oh, yummy. The queen of magical realism. She has a new book coming out. And so I feel like I can’t say like specific titles, we can talk about some other books that I’m really excited about. But I think next year there are some big books coming from some big favorite authors that are on my radar. And so that I can say,

Traci Thomas 1:07:40
Okay, I love that. There. Okay, so I’m going to just to piggyback off Percival Everett because that was one on my list, but also his wife Danzy Senna, one of my faves has a new book coming out color television, that is satire as well. It doesn’t come out till July, so you have to wait a little bit. It’s like July 30. But it’s about a writer who is writing her what her husband calls her mulatto, pride and pride know her mulatto Crime and Punishment. And she decides she’s going to go work in TV just to like help her like get her shit together. And she basically works for like a Kenya Barris type guy like a mixed and personally obsessed with like Miss mixed race culture because dancy Sena is like the queen of mixed kids with Caucasian and new people. So I’m super excited about that. I’m also excited no surprise, Hanif abdurraqib has a new book coming out called there’s always this year. It’s about basketball, and culture and performance. And I love him and I’ll read anything he reads. And just a reminder, if you haven’t read a little devil in America, you can get your copy of that but and then my last one is a book called a fire so wild and I have to be honest, this book. I’m only the only reason I’m excited about it even know about it. It’s a debut, Adam get it on the show, February. She I met her at a book event of sub we were both going to see kushana Cali talk about the survivalists and I walk into reparations club, and she’s wearing a Stax sweatshirt. And I was like, I’ve never seen a stranger wearing stacks merch in the wild. So after the thing I like walk up to her and I’m like, I’m sorry, this is so weird. But like, that’s my and she was like, Oh my God. And I was like, oh my god, I started crying. And turns out, she’s an author, and she’s publishing her debut book. So I would never have known about this book, if not for that moment. And she’s like a member of this tax pack or whatever. But the book sounds fantastic. It’s climate fiction set in Northern California, which is where I’m from. And it’s about like, there’s a fire coming and it’s about like all the class distinctions in Berkeley, California and like the like, do good white lady who’s like, you know, all of a sudden confronted, it just sounds really good. It sounds like there’s a lot of plot so I’m really excited about this debut of a person who were stacks merch so if you want me to be excited about your debut, go to the sex podcast.com/shop and get yourself a sweatshirt. You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for being here. This is a long episode, but I don’t care. I think it was so much fun. I think our list is really good. Again, I didn’t know what we were going to put together. But I’m like, I feel very proud of this one. So, MJ, thank you so much, Adam. Thank you so much. Subscribe to The New York Times. Subscribe today beautiful. support these wonderful book humans and connect with them on social media. I’ll link to everything in the show notes. Thank you guys. Thank you.

Adam Vitcavage 1:10:28
This was so fun.

Traci Thomas 1:10:31
Everyone else, we will see you in the stacks.

Thank you all for listening. And thank you again to Adam Vitcavage and MJ Franklin for joining the show. Remember the Stacks book club pick for December is Romeo and Juliet by William Shakespeare which we will discuss on Wednesday, December 27th with Farah Karim Cooper. If you love this show, and you want insight access to it, head to patreon.com/the stacks to join the stacks pack. Make sure you’re subscribed to the stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you’re listening through Apple podcasts, be sure to leave us a rating and a review. For more from the stacks. Follow us on social media at the stacks pod on Instagram threads and tik tok and at the sites pod underscore on Twitter. And you can check out our website thestackspodcast.com This episode of the stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Lauren Tyree. Our graphic designer is Robin MacWrite. The Stacks is created and produced by me Traci Thomas.

Cherie Marquez http://takeonedaily.media
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