Ep. 323 You’ve Got to Want Depth with Chelsea Devantez

Written By Lauren Tyree
Ep. 323 You’ve Got to Want Depth with Chelsea Devantez.jpg

Friend of The Stacks Chelsea Devantez is here to tell us about her debut memoir I Shouldn’t Be Telling You This (But I’m Going to Anyway). Chelsea explains how podcasting about celebrity memoirs has impacted her writing, and what she found important to include in her own story. Plus we learn how the structure of Chelsea’s book is a reflection of one major event in her life.

The Stacks Book Club selection for June is It Ends with Us by Colleen Hoover. We will discuss the book on June 26th with Melissa Mogollon.

 
 

Everything we talk about on today’s episode can be found below in the show notes and on Bookshop.org and Amazon.

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TRANSCRIPT
*Due to the nature of podcast advertising, these timestamps are not 100% accurate and will vary.

Traci Thomas 0:08

Welcome to The Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host Traci Thomas and today I am so excited to welcome friend of the show. My friend Chelsea Devontez back to The Stacks. Chelsea is a comedian, Emmy award nominated screenwriter and the host of the Glamorous Trash podcast. She is also the author of a brand new memoir called I Shouldn't Be Telling You This (But I'm Going to Anyway). It's comprised of revealing essays that chronicle Chelsea's upbringing and her journey to Hollywood. Chelsea and I get to talk today about different iterations of her book, how she feels about having a memoir coming into the world and also a piece of her life that a lot of folks don't know about. Don't forget the stacks book club pick for June is it ends with us by Colleen Hoover. Melissa Mogollon will return to discuss the book with us on Wednesday, June 26th. Quick reminder, everything we talked about on each episode of The Stacks can be found in the link in the show notes.

All right, everybody. I'm sure you are exactly 0% Surprised by my guest today. You knew that friend of the pod, my friend Chelsea Devantez could not write an entire book and not come on this podcast. Let me ask her all of the most inappropriate questions about it. And you are right. We are predictable. And my guest today is a debut memoirist of the book I Shouldn't be telling you this, but I'm going to anyway. Podcast host and the amazing, amazing, amazing Chelsea Devantez.

Chelsea Devantez 2:50

I'm so happy to be here. I feel like I would write a book just to get to do this, just to get to be on your podcast and talk about books.

Traci Thomas 2:57

Well, you did it. And here you are. Congratulations.

Chelsea Devantez 3:00

Thank you so much.

Traci Thomas 3:01

Was it worth writing an entire book for this next hour or so?

Chelsea Devantez 3:06

Yes. 100%. I mean, you know, what, who's to say, who's to say what happens in this next hour. But in this moment, I'm feeling really good about my choices for the past three years.

Traci Thomas 3:16

You actually started writing this before you even knew me in the hopes that one day, one day I was-

Chelsea Devantez 3:22

No meeting you was such a light in my book process because I had, I think I was on the home stretch to my first draft. And I kept thinking to myself, whenever I read a book, and there's just something bonkers in it, or they didn't go deep, and somebody that makes sense, I think where were their friends? Where were their fret, like, do they not show this to anyone, especially in memoirs? I'm like, did you not show this book to anyone? And so I kept thinking to myself, you know, I have my friends who I'm going to send it to you, but I really need someone who doesn't know me that well to read this, you know, I need someone with a really objective eye. But who do I trust to? To look at a manuscript who doesn't know me, that's crazy. And then in comes Tracy into my DMs, we do a podcast, we realize we are the exact same and the complete opposite at the same time. Yeah, I realized how smart you are. And I and I said, Will you read my book? And she said, Yeah, and you gave me fantastic notes. And you were the person.

Traci Thomas 4:22

Yeah. And it will surprise exactly zero people that most of the notes I gave for take this out of the book, cut it too much of this. Let's do this.

Chelsea Devantez 4:29

Well, I think very importantly, you had said, you actually, you had a lot of nice things to say. But on the very first page you wrote, No, no, I hate this talk about yourself. Because I think my earliest draft began with some early arts scene painting, and you were like you I hate it. I really wasn't sure if you were right or not. And then you also I had a chapter that you know, every chapter title, my book is a different woman's name. And you're like, begin with your own name. And I was like, No, that's too obvious and listeners, I began with my own name. And I end with my own name, and that is directly a Traci Thomas note.

Traci Thomas 5:07

Yes, I did it. I'm a published author. We've already dove in. But you have to tell people in about 30 seconds or so what the book is actually about?

Chelsea Devantez 5:15

Yes. So it's a comedy gal memoir. I am a comedian. It is half comedy and half, absolutely harrowing trauma. And you gotta want both. It's dark. It's dark. It's also funny, but you've got to want to laugh about the dark stuff. Otherwise, you're opening this book expecting? Are you there God, it's me vodka. And it's not going to be that. And it's a memoir. It's about my life. And each chapter title is different woman's name. Some are heroes, some are villains. But what are both those things a leading role, and I do love women and my leading roles. And very naturally in my life, women have always been centered. And so I always knew this would be the structure I would use. Should I ever get to write a book? And so you learned about these other women? You also learned about me? And a bunch of bananas? Bananas, things happen. I don't know if you want me to give that overview Traci or if we'll get into it.

Traci Thomas 6:04

No, that was good. That was like, Okay, I love that summer heroes in some are villains. Another just to talk about me for a moment. Another note that I gave you in the book was and this will also surprise your people was there's a character whose name is ship, bitch. And she's a fucking ship edge. And I told you more ship pitch because there's two things I like in a book. I like a short book and I like ship talk. And you know what, ship EJ gives us the shit talk. I I love it. I have we I have questions about shipments later. But I just want everyone to know that if you like the ship a chapter you can thank me.

Chelsea Devantez 6:42

Yeah, you can also think of my one of my best friends Ashley Nicole Black. Same note. She was like more gore, go harder. Why are hard on everyone held all the other horrible things. And I was like, cuz I don't want her to take up space in my story. But she was like, No, include more. And I did. And it's another Traci Thomas specialty.

Traci Thomas 6:57

And, and it was great. And as I was reading it, because I read it the first draft. And then I read this finished book. And I was like, I love this chapter. This chapter was amazing. And then you reminded me that that was the note that I gave you. So I was like, well, at least I'm consistent. Okay, enough about me, we're gonna talk about you for real. I want to know, because this book is sort of this combination of you says, like trauma and comedy, and you're sort of this person that the world knows, as a comedian, and as a writer, and former podcast, like analyzing these things, which are all sort of, you know, lighter things. How were you thinking about audience? Who are you envisioning is like that you were writing to? And how were you feeling about knowing that people might know you from one thing, and then pick up this book and get all this other stuff? Where they're like, what, what in the-

Chelsea Devantez 7:47

Yeah, yeah, you know, it's, it's interesting, because I think, in when I've interviewed other authors, I'm curious if you think this is the same, we write the book, we would love to read. So when I'm reading a book, boring is like, the worst thing you could be I and I, you know, I read a lot of memoirs. So when people do like a fun little life, skim, I'm like, Well, what a waste of my time. That's not what life even is to live through. So, and I like heart, and I like depth. And I like introspection. And if I believe like, if you're going to memoir, you better fucking memoir, you. You better bleed out on these pages, maybe this is your chance. And so that's what I gave. And I realize, actually, more now that the book is coming out. And that's yes, some people are like, Oh, no, oh, my God. Like, I thought I was gonna read a fun book. This bitch, what is she doing to me, but I think unfortunately, that's also the experience of my life. And most of my life, I have continued to pretend where I'm like, I am fun. I love makeup. I'm a comedian. We're good from there. And I just thought that was most important to present as normal and fun and happy and, and I never let anyone see was what was underneath. And in this book, you see what is underneath. And that's, I'm learning like, not gonna be for some people. But for anyone who has really lived through something who knows pain in any way and wants to laugh about it and find your way out, then this book is for you. But it but I mean, I just saw it and Traci, you're gonna kill me.

Traci Thomas 9:30

If she reads a Goodreads reviews you guys that she won't listen to me about that.

Chelsea Devantez 9:35

I think to myself, Traci said no. Your therapist said no. And then I'm already on the page. I've already like, emotionally hurt myself with the Internet. And I saw this. And I think also I do believe I'm going to stop I believe I'm going to stop but I think as a debut author, like you just really don't know how it's gonna hit people who don't know you. And I think you really need to be prepped for this book like you need To know what it is before opening the page, otherwise it punches you in the face, you've got to know that it's going to be dark and light. And this moment, that's a comment where she was like, okay, so I didn't read anything about this book. And that was, I shouldn't have done that. And she was like, you know, I did like some of the jokes like, how if you cut your hair and get things, you think it's going to change your life. And I was like, I didn't make that joke. I think that joke is fucking lame. Like, I would never make that joke. That's, it's been done. We've done it. And yeah, but I do have bangs. And so I think she was just looking for something that spoke to her and made it up. For me. It was like, the rest was horrifying. And it's like, yeah, if you've not, if you haven't seen darkness in life, maybe you shouldn't experience it for the first time in my book.

Traci Thomas 10:47

So as I was preparing to like research for you, I listened to this episode of your podcast, where you talk about some events in your life that were pretty fucking harrowing. So I at least knew going into the book that at least one part of the book was probably going to involve this like crazy story. And then I also knew that you were a donor kid. And so I knew that that in some way would be part of, of the book until I at least, like had a few things. But there's a lot in this book where I was like, oh, surprise, that's awful. Or like, Oh, I didn't like I didn't know Chelsea had been through that. Or like, I didn't know that about you. But at least I knew that there was like, some depth there that I had the sense that it wasn't all going to be ha ha ha.

Chelsea Devantez 11:33

And you, you I mean, nothing. I'm like, so deep, but you've got to want depth, you've got to want depth. And sometimes we go to our comedy books, because we want lightness and we want fun. So you've got to want your depth with your comedy to enjoy this book. But I also really tried, you know, in the in the first page and no, in the first two pages, I'm telling you what is up so you got to be you know, you got to be reading but I do hope the book is funny. And you did give me one note, which I loved, which was that there were too many jokes. And I said yes, sorry. No, I felt great about it. I said too many? I'm amazing.

Traci Thomas 12:08

This is a place where we are different. We are different. I have to paint jokes. Can I tell you that I was conned into watching the Tom Brady roast by my brother and it is so bad.

Chelsea Devantez 12:18

Oh, yeah. It's a very bad roast. Some roasts can be good. But that one, usually the roast reflects the person being roasted.

Traci Thomas 12:26

Yeah. And also just like, it's just so homophobic and like-

Chelsea Devantez 12:32

Yes, what jokes do you have to make about that person? Who are the people close to you who are gonna have special speeches? Like, yeah.

Traci Thomas 12:38

it was just so bad, though Nikki Glaser was hilarious.

Chelsea Devantez 12:41

Yeah. She crushed it. Well, also, I should say, on my podcast, I do really approach these books with depth. I think that's what shots people to and I'm I do the thing that I tried to do when I was writing for Jon Stewart doing political comedy, where I'm like, it's funny, and it's fun. And it's cute. And it's fun. Bam.

Traci Thomas 13:01

For sure. Yeah, you're failed. Okay, so one of the things that happens, besides you telling us that the books gonna have depth in the beginning? Is there are these black boxes in the book? Yeah. And they were not in the version that I first read. They were put into the book later. And I'm curious, I don't even know how much you can say. Because if I'm going to say what I think I can say, and you tell me if I can't say. But it's because for legal reasons, you had to remove parts of your story, because of the law. And your work around had to do with just blacking out the sanctions.

Chelsea Devantez 13:37

Yes. redacted, like blackout sensor bars. So let me say this, no one told me, you have to put sensor bars in your book, they said, you have to delete this story entirely. And I said, I will not publish a memoir without it. One just spiritually. cosmically, it was, it was the reason I wanted to write a memoir was to finally share this story that took me decades to share. And to because I also just felt as a logical author that none of the other stories can make sense. Like, it's really this. It's this cyclone in the middle of my life, that that sort of changes everything. And it's interconnecting the beginning and what comes next. And I just thought, There's no way I can write without it. And so I tried to do a lot of different other things that lawyers just couldn't imagine. And so they were sort of like, well show us and then maybe, and I was like, I'm never I, it was so hard to write this story to begin with. It was really, really difficult that I couldn't imagine and, and I was being told, you know, this, it was just the system silencing a victim, which is also already in the fucking story. It's a story about domestic violence that I experienced when I was very, very young. And so, so yeah, so what I chose to do was blackout, just enough words, that I could legally print it. And I wanted people to know that something was missing. And I chose to tell a different story, which is how our systems, silence victims and anyone who was in other the system is set up for you to fail, specifically, because, you know, I waited, I went to therapy, I have savings. I already had a lawyer, I got another lawyer, I know famous people, they're in my phone, sometimes they text me back depends on what I say, if I couldn't tell my story, with all of those resources that I felt I had worked my whole life for, think of any victim of domestic violence with even an ounce less than I have. And so that's the story I told. Now, that being said, I'm a year out. I've since thought to myself, you know, I got through this horrible thing, my turn in the whole manuscript, and I'm told to delete this part of my life. And I got through with anger. I mean, my anger just powered every move until I turned this book. And I was violently angry. I still am. But had I not been-

Traci Thomas 16:05

Angry, because you were told you couldn't tell your story in the way you want it to?

Chelsea Devantez 16:09

yeah. Angry, also angry I had gotten so far. You know, it was the last step, I never would have conceived of the books structure, I never probably would have written it, I wouldn't have. I mean, I had to go back to court documents. I didn't have to, but I did for the story. I had to go I call people who were there at the time, I had to interrogate things that were really hard for my brain. And, and I did. And then to kind of feel like it was all for nothing, or to kind of feel like no matter what happens in this story, I lose because I am the victim in the story. And victims are set up to lose even when they're winning, because I am the winner, like everyone was like, Oh, that happened to you. We will serve justice. And justice is sure you get justice. But don't fucking say it ever don't ever tell anyone else this happened. And that is how we allow domestic violence to continue is because women are shamed into being quiet about it. That that's the reason why it happens over and over and over again. And if it was something in culture that say, I don't know, a comedian had written about with jokes in a way that you could read about domestic violence in a way that didn't make you feel icky, but perhaps changed your mind and made you laugh. Maybe that could have been impactful. But instead, I blacked out a bunch of the words, because I had to.

Traci Thomas 17:34

And you and I talked about this, that because you were angry when you had to make the changes, and you sort of like, kind of like bull in a china shop with the black boxes. But now you're out. How are you feeling about that?

Chelsea Devantez 17:49

It's interesting sometimes, you know, because I'm doing a lot of press for the book right now, when I get the reaction I was hoping for when I made that choice of like, wow, this other wild story hit me, which is like, this is like a comedy book. And it's there's blacked out bars, you can't tell it and it really was powerful. I'm like, Yay, I made it through I made something out of nothing. But anytime someone is like, Wait, why are that why? I'm like, Oh, God, I wish I had, I just wanted everyone to know that something had been taken from me. And that, and that it's taken from so many people like me, and perhaps I would have I mean, the structure was the thing, this domestic violence relationship I lived through when I was very young. And then 10 years later, when I get subpoenaed back to court for these just absolute bananas reasons. And so that was the first chapter and the last chapter was 10 years later, and so is the whole book structure. So I would have had to redo the entire arc of the book. And I think the heartbreak of having to go back into hiding that story that I had worked years to have the courage to share wouldn't let me rewrite it. But would the book had been better had I? I don't know. Maybe? Maybe the lady who said I made a bangs joke would have found her way in? I don't know, maybe the book is not for her. I don't know.

Traci Thomas 19:16

I don't think she was finding her way in. I think she thought you were someone else. I think maybe she thought you were Chelsea Handler. I think that's right. I think that's right. That's possible. Um, did this ever make you think about how some of the other like some of the books you've covered on your podcast, celebrity memoirs like that you've covered that maybe those people also didn't put things in that, like we know about in the culture because of legal reasons. And instead of like, redacting that, maybe there were things that they just like, completely pulled out of their books.

Chelsea Devantez 19:43

Yeah. I mean, I think that's why the Tommy Mottola section is so short and Mariah Carey's book, she's like into the marriage It was horrible and and here's a couple things that have witnesses like Deborah when they're getting french fries, right. And, and now I'm out of the marriage. I also think when You are a celebrity celebrity celebrity, you have just so much money to, to fight, things like that. And you become a public entity which changes which information can be shared or not shared. And like what type of insurance you can get. And also, I think really important is that like, it can't be defamation if it's true, right. And not only is mine true, it is documented in court, and I was still not allowed to share it. And I think that speaks more to a moment we're in now of, I mean, it's like, I think what was really chilling is that the USC graduate whose speech was bands because she spoke out for Palestine, just released it and the whole thing is redacted. And has black bars on it. And I was like, huh, a literary literary trend, none of us wanted.

Traci Thomas 20:51

Yeah. Okay, so speaking of your podcast, glamourous trash, where you talk about slavery memoirs, you talk about a lot of slavery memoirs, publicly, and I'm wondering how much you were in your own head as you were writing this book of like, what would I say about this on the show? Or oh, my God, I'm doing that thing that I used to say that I hated or oh my god, I understand why people fall into this trap or whatever.

Chelsea Devantez 21:13

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think, first off the audacity to talk about a memoir to talk about other people's memoirs, and then write your own. I mean, the balls i That definitely hit me a few times where I was like, You're, you're a monster. I can't believe you're putting yourself through this. It definitely I really do try and approach those books with empathy and compassion and love. Because if you love them, I don't come at celebrity memoirs. Like this is gonna suck. And I know a lot of people are like, man, they're not real books. Well, they are and they actually hold our culture's most powerful women's. Yeah, look, if you don't think Christina Aguilera is our most powerful woman in society, that's fine. But she is because we let women become pop stars and singers and actresses, and every now and then a politician. So they hold these like gems in these messy truths. And so yeah, I thought about it a lot. I think it's a I think it's different because celebrity memoirs are rarely treated with the craft of writing. So a few of them are like Mackenzie Phillips book, or oddly, Crystal Hefner's had a lot of craft in it. But sometimes celebrity memoirs are like, here's what happened A to D, the end. And so I think I was already doing such a different structure that got me out of my head. But yeah, I, despite you giving me notes to cut stuff, I cut so many things, just thinking about every time I would get bored in a memoir, and I was like, that's the one thing you can't be when you read this book, I won't allow you to be bored.

Traci Thomas 22:38

Are there things that you became more forgiving of?

Chelsea Devantez 22:41

Stylistically, like memoirs and other memoirs, you mean, like

Traci Thomas 22:45

I just mean like in writing your own? Were there things that you used to be like very critical of and other memoirs where you're like, Oh, I understand.

Chelsea Devantez 22:52

Yes. So I still stand firm in the belief that I shouldn't be hearing what your grandpa did for a living and the first few pages of your memoir, if it's not going to impact your story, like a great example is Britney Spears learning what happened to her grandma's incredibly enlightening and insightful to what happens to her. But then, like, other people are just like, here's what my grandpa did for a living. I'm like, What the fuck, who cares? You know, and also not in the beginning, like, and so I'm still like do nots. Also, I still hate montage mush, which a lot of memoirs start with, they're like, we kind of lived on this story. My mom always baked, you know, whatever, for breakfast and at night, we would watch cartoons and it's just like, I need a beginning, middle and end. I don't want to hear mush, floating smells and scents throughout your childhood. I don't want to know what your dad's neck smelled like when he hugged you. So that said I did have to move a chapter forward when I had to redact a lot of the first chapter this chapter called Amazing Grace that had a lot of my childhood details in and I had to kind of pillage other chapter details and put them in the beginning just so that you would be able to read my book and know the timeline and I had more childhood in the beginning than I would have wanted and yes, I became very forgiving because there was kind of no way for you to understand the scope of life without knowing certain details.

Traci Thomas 24:13

Right? I personally do not that does not bother me the childhood a little bit it just I guess you're right. It depends. I sort of am curious where people come from Yes, with a beginning middle and end Yes, though. The mush I don't like but the like details of like grandpa or whatever that doesn't. It's not that it doesn't bother me necessarily, but I don't always catch it like I'm not like it's not something that I'm like really looking out for though when we did Judas book and her fucking grandma's garden. For nine we were in the garden for too long forever. If we had been in the garden for like five minutes I would have been five but fine but we were in the garden multiple times over like the course of an hour.

Chelsea Devantez 24:47

Also if you had worked the garden into some sort of analogy that grows the ayahuasca that you now take once a week at the end, but now I'm back in but you can't just be like and and on this row we planted roses.

Traci Thomas 24:59

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you gotta you gotta tie up. I can't know that for sure. That's for sure. Okay, you're a donor kid. Send the book. I don't think it's a spoiler because I feel like that's like part of who you are.

Chelsea Devantez 25:17

No, yeah, I did write it as a big twist. So I write about in the first five chapters on like, oh, and then my dad and then my dad. And then I revealed that he wasn't actually my dad the whole time. However, it is such a huge part of who I am. If you know me before you read the book, you know, you gotta know what's coming. And I do like the term donor kid. That's I like that. Yeah, they want to be called donor conceived like that their donor conceived or a donor conceived adults because they think the infantalizing of donor kids kind of allows you to see us as cute kids you're creating and not like human beings who deserve rights and stuff. I see. Oh, just want to talk about this. Your listeners know? Yeah, but I like donor kid.

Traci Thomas 25:58

I had no idea. I just know you're, I think you're the only donor conceived person, but I know.

Chelsea Devantez 26:05

I know that. I know. Exactly. You're, you're gonna end up knowing someone else. I bet.

Traci Thomas 26:09

I might know some. But you're the only one that I know who's out that. Yeah, who's out that? I know. And so you that's what you say. So that's what I've been saying. But now I know that maybe I shouldn't be saying what you say because it's not my community.

Chelsea Devantez 26:22

It's not like that. It's okay. Yeah, I think it's a community. It's, it's kind of the same as like, now they call being read homes in the adoption, community adoption, dissolution, but that's a much nicer term for I adopted a child and then gave it away. And so some adoptees, prefer to keep calling it being re homed, because it sort of implies the emotions that come with it. So I think it just differs.

Traci Thomas 26:46

Okay. Okay. Well, so speaking of donor kids, slash donor conceived people. In the book, you sort of make this case, or you talk about, like, how hard it is to be the kid and how like, you don't have a lot of information, because you were never really thought about at all in the system at the time, like in the 80s, and 70s. And 80s, was really like not interested in the children. And like, what would happen to you when you did grow up? And so what do you think is owed to donor conceived children and adults?

Chelsea Devantez 27:21

I mean, to be using a donor in this day and age, unknown donor, where you get your medical information and the correct identity. And I think what people do not realize is that the donor infertility industry is completely unregulated, unregulated. Two points where I'm going to tell you some basic facts, and it's going to make you sick. And this is the whole industry. So on Vanderpump Rules, recently, Lala Kent was having her donor party where everyone gets to pick the donor based off the profile. And I was like, ello, ello fucking L. It's like, I'm nice. And I went to Harvard, and I'm six foot two, maybe, maybe, or maybe not like, this is such a money filled industry, donors can say whatever they want on these forms in order to sell their sperm. Cairo banks can say whatever they want on these forms, a man could, whatever there's zero bank, they're like, it's like a, it's like a sperm warehouse. It's a sperm where you can go and buy sperm. Okay, there's no federal or state limit on how many times a donor can donate. So you can go up to realize you have hundreds to 1000s of half siblings, you could grow up in a town where this is exactly what happened about a month ago, a woman dated her half brother for five years. No, because they had the same donor. Because when you don't eat that many times, and you're in a single area, how, yeah, so so they were in a relationship for five years until finding out. And not only that, not only could the information not be true, but let's say it is true. Think of all the times you've gone on a dating app, and you're like, I'm looking for a guy who's funny. And then a bunch of fucking losers are like, That's me. I'm funny, right? And you meet them. And you're like, actually, you're the worst person in the world, but you they're self identifying their self identifying, there's no regulations. If you go on Reddit, you will find all these men talking about ways they gave fake names. And I in my years, they used to tell parents, your donor as a medical student, and sometimes that was true. And other times they were in mental institutions, they were homeless, that's how they made their way or they were just students or but not medical students, and just the amount of lies that went into it and still go into it now. And I think what is heartbreaking and why I put so much of my story into this book is that fertility industry narratives are always centered on the parents and it is a really intense, heartbreaking, fulfilling journey of a parent to want a child and Find a way to have a child. But you should also be thinking about the kid that's going to grow up. And this anonymous person who you have no idea about is going to be their biological father. And odds are they're gonna want to meet Him or know something about him. And wouldn't you want to vet your kids? Parent? Because if you enter our community, there's a lot of really bad, horrible donor people. And it's, it's your father, you know what I mean? A lot of really not great guys.

Traci Thomas 30:34

Right? And is there any Have there been changes made like in the recent past, like for kids, who are donor conceived now?

Chelsea Devantez 30:44

Colorado has recently made a law that you cannot donate anonymously. And that law will go into effect next year. And not only that, but people who don't want to go through the cost of, of donors have gone to Facebook, and act. There's a guy on 90 day fiance, who has made maybe 1000 children, because people find him on Facebook, and he comes to a hotel room and gives them a sample. And I just think they're not, they're not thinking of what their children are going to experience later in life.

Traci Thomas 31:21

Yeah, fuck, that's not great. Like, I don't know if that's an understatement or not.

Chelsea Devantez 31:30

People, well, they really have this feeling of like, and you know, the donor community has come together the adoptee community, because we have so much in common, but there's this feeling of like, We're your parents, were your family, that person is not your parent, you don't need them. And I think what you don't realize is like you do biologically, I mean, I don't have my medical history. I don't have anything about myself and legally, I can't there, I legally am not allowed. I don't have any rights to it. And everyone wants to know who their parent is. It's, it's the theme of the 1000 movies, and and what's that little child children's book with, like a duck being like, are you my mom? Are you my mother? Like, it is the most natural instinct to be like, I just want to know something about them. And I think when these decisions are made, it's like, Oh, you'll never need that person. It's like, that person's DNA is in my body.

Traci Thomas 32:23

Well, right. And it's, and it's also that the parents are saying, or like the system is saying, you'll never need that person, but nobody's really considering what the child will mean. And well, yeah, when they get to be an adult.

Chelsea Devantez 32:36

And I think even, I think yeah, particular to that point is that, because it was there was so much secrecy in the 80s, when I was conceived, and the generations before and after. They they did they never kept records, they lost the records, they changed the records, they burned the records, because they truly believed they didn't know the internet and DNA testing was coming and that soon, you could have your DNA test for 79, 99. Two for one special right? And they couldn't conceive of the internet at that point. So they believed they were like playing God and that if no one ever knew the father would have a better chance of loving the child that wasn't his. Which I'm not sure that's entirely wrong, however, it means they can't, they've had a hard time studying us because we weren't tracked and also no one's given a fuck. So there's like four studies about us and the one that I found it's painful it's named my my daddy's name is donor. But they studied us and they found in comparison to kids who know who their biological parents are not even raised with them just know who they are. We're like it's two to four times more likely to die by suicide to become alcoholics to become depressed to have mental illness and no or if they didn't know if they didn't and become criminals. Yeah, so donor kids are like two to four times on every single kind of ism you could have more likely to. And interesting to is that they found at least in that tiny study, which again is too small to be indicative of of a full truth but that divorce rates go down when you have a child later in life because the the idea is that you've waited longer you have money, you have things that that take a divorce rate down, and when you bring a donor into the picture, the divorce rate skyrockets. Wow. And so but it was kind of amazing for me because I always grew up being like how the fuck like I'm donor conceived. I also had this horrible, abusive dad, I also had this other horrible, abusive stepdad. And I don't know who my real dad is, you know, and it's like, I think what's kind of beautiful is that as we've all kind of come out of the cracks to be like we're here. So many of us have similarities. So right now there's this podcast called inconceivable and like you He has a he has a dad who turns out not to be his biological dad. But it was such a piece of shit to him. He was already estranged. Then he had another dad. Then he finds out he's donor conceived. And I was like, damn, I used to feel so alone. And now I realize I was never alone. We've all we were all told to keep it a secret. We were all told it was shameful. And we're trying to like reverse that right now as a community.

Traci Thomas 35:25

Part of your story is also that your donor father was Latino.

Chelsea Devantez 35:30

I'm gonna say Hispanic, because that's the word that was used in the 80s.

Traci Thomas 35:33

Yes. Okay, Hispanic. And that plays a part in your book as well. Yeah. I'd love for you to talk just a little bit about that. Because your mom is white. You were raised with white dad figures. And white brothers. And you thought you were white your whole life? And then you find information out?

Chelsea Devantez 35:56

Well that's actuall not true.

Traci Thomas 35:58

Okay. Well tell me, I got it wrong.

Chelsea Devantez 36:00

So my mom is Swedish, for generations, like Swedes, on Swedes on Swedes.

Traci Thomas 36:08

She's an Ikea princess.

Chelsea Devantez 36:12

Exactly. And her husband who I thought was my dad, I was 14 years old is Mohican and Choctaw. And I, okay, think like Scottish or something. Okay. But he's very, and he very much identifies as native. And it's a big part of Oh, that's not in the book, right? Because it's fucking humiliating to have thought he was my dad. And for all of that, to have been a part of my life and a part of how he raised me and realize it was a lie. And it's just I and I also the other thing, too, is that the chapters so long, so at one point, I did go into it, my editor was like, this is becoming the entire book, like, and I was like, okay, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes. So I had to, I had to cut a lot out of it. And also, you have to remember what identity was like? Yeah, in those years, and the way people talked about it was incorrectly or not at all. And so I'm also like, white presenting. So it's all you know what I mean? It's like it was a very nuanced thing. And it took me a while to untangle it all it and they chose a Hispanic sperm donor so that I would have brown eyes and brown hair and look like him. And I came out blonde as fuck, like the blonde is baby you've ever seen. I also came out with 12 toes.

Traci Thomas 37:40

I have 11 fingers.

Chelsea Devantez 37:41

Yeah, I see. Again, we are the same.

Traci Thomas 37:44

I feel like I put this in my, in my notes in the first book with my little red pen. I think I like, like me too, me too. Yeah.

Chelsea Devantez 37:52

Um, yeah. And then later, my hair turned brown. And but yeah, so But it's interesting. It's not like I have, it's like they divorced when I was three or four. Never wanted to talk to me. Most of my dealings with them are bad. He was physically very abusive. I kind of hated him from the start. And so yeah, so it's a complicated part of the story. And then when I found out he wasn't my dad, it was actually a really wonderful feeling at first and, and then I was told to keep it a secret. And then it evolved into a really dark feeling over time.

Traci Thomas 38:26

Yeah. But how did how does that I mean, ship edge, my favorite character, she sort of forces your hand on the identity piece of it. And I know that in the book at the time, sort of like you weren't prepared to, to, like think or talk about the fact that like, because I guess, I guess just because your last name is de Vontaze. Right, you change your name for reasons that are blacked out in the book. And you talk about having had multiple last names, you had your mom's last name, you had your stepped out, you had your stepdads last name, or no, you had your dad's last name, then you had your stepdads last name, then you go back to your dad last name, then for the reasons in the book that are blacked out, you end up making up your own last name, which is Devantez. Which later in life is like who is this white girl pretending to be ethnic with name. And so she sort of forces your hand to sort of tell your story about being donor conceived and whatever. And all of that's very difficult for you at the time. But now, I think we're at least 10 or 15 years after that, where how do you feel about it now like well-

Chelsea Devantez 39:36

I should say is a teenager it was really important to me like I felt like, like learning my dad was have his manic meant a lot to me. It's just all of my journals, sort of every every tiny little way, consequential or not that I didn't match my family. I attributed it all to him. I definitely had like these beautiful fantasies of who he was. And I don't know I don't know if it's a teenage thing or just human thing, but like, I, it's really weird because it's like, I don't feel connected to being Swedish at all. You know what I mean? But because I didn't know my dad, and because I knew so little of him it, it just matters so much to me. And Avantis is completely it's made up. So no one in the world has about me that name. And the name kind of says, like issue something. And I think that's the perfect name for me. That's because it's true. Yeah. And I have been trying to figure out who I am supposed to be in that, in that aspect of my life, my whole life and trying not to trespass where I don't belong. And as a teenager, it was just what it was. And so I was very proud. And then I, I'm like 19, or 20, and I get a hold of some more books. And I'm like, Hmm, is there is this mine or not? I'm keeping it a secret, I feel a lot of shame around it, I just kind of tried to just be this blob in the corner. And I think, again, like we haven't really started talking about identity in like pop culture, you know, outside of academic circles into like, the last five years, and, and really horrible ways in the name of loneliness sometimes. And so it wasn't a conversation I was also pressed to have, except when I got into entertainment, and I would just say, I don't know who my dad is. And they'd be like, Yeah, but take a DNA test. I'm like, yeah, he's Hispanic. They're like, nice, you know? And it's like, no one understands. Awesome. And I did I told I told a lot of people, not a lot of people I probably told two hands to forehands that I have people I was donor conceived. So I'd like I told I would tell people in interviews, I would tell bosses of mine, I told my best friends, I would tell some partners other boyfriends who were bad did not get to know. Because they were mostly they didn't even want to know what music I liked. So I think the secret is really what took over my identity. Most of what I was wrestling with was being a secret and being really ashamed of who I was. And I think keeping a secret when your child will do that to you. Which is also why I if anyone out there is raising a donor conceived child, the best thing you can do is tell them as soon as you can and their children's books about it, you can give it to him every day. I think that part of it really fucked me up and made it so that my identity is really twisted around being donor conceived. That's like my primary identity. And yeah, it was working through in therapy, a therapist who specializes in identity I was on my own little journey and this person who I named ship it and ship it Jr. had slept with a guy that I didn't know about it, but I later end up dating him and then I knew about it. And she was like, why don't you like it? It's the age old the town bastard. Okay, it's the town bastard shit of like, look at that fucked up person without a dad. Why don't you have a fucking Dad you've dumb bitch. She could have never known I was donor conceived. But I still don't forget her. And I outed myself. And I feel it's really interesting because I feel so infuriated and we'll never for I mean, I feel a level of inferior in being infuriated. That's like, not good for someone. The amount of hate I have for her is bad. And yet, I'm so much happier now. I'm-

Traci Thomas 43:34

That you told people?

Chelsea Devantez 43:35

That I'm out, yeah. I don't know how to explain it. I I really, I'm going to try and say this without, you know, tanking the podcast, but I thought it would be better that I was dead. Than for people to know, I was donor-conceived. And I I had to really I came close a few times. And you know, oddly enough reading studies, we are two to four times more likely to experience that I was like amazing. And this is not my fault. This is other people's faults. But the shame was pretty painful. And I didn't. I didn't know how to tell people and I had to go against my family's wishes in order to find a way to do it. And what's so funny now is that like, we're all okay, we all lived through it. I didn't I still have my mom. I only have one parent in the world. It's my mom. I thought it was gonna lose her when I told people I still have her. We're closer now. And I wish I had had the courage to do it sooner. And I hate I hate that ship. It became a part of my story. When I already have enough story without her.

Traci Thomas 44:43

Yeah for sure. Okay, this has been a lot about your childhood stuff because I feel like like you said before, it's sort of like frames the rest of your life. But like, unfortunately for everyone listening, Chelsea is like, ridiculously successful. It's so rude and We hate this. And there's a part of the book. So like, you know, everyone has to read the book but you find your way to becoming a Jon Stewart writer two times, two different projects. And you have all these fancy friends, you have this group chat called Roger Roger, which is I've never been more jealous than anything that I've read in a book. But that chapter, I'm always I've both times I was like, I'm so jealous. I hate Chelsea's just got cool friends. But you have this one line or this one section where you talk about your whole life leading up to like, finding success has been like the struggle to make it right. It's like eating top ramen every day or like, whatever and then finding and then you make it and then all of a sudden your life can't be about the struggle to make it because you've done it. So then what is your life become about like, it becomes about you know, trying to actually live and enjoy the dream. And I want to know like more about that what that was like for you because you know, we talked about so much like your you had a rough coming up upbringing, like you had a rough time and now like you're you and I feel like obviously all of that still there. But like you're not it's not a defining for you to the outside world. I might be defining for you Chelsea living it, but it's not defining for the people who see you from the outside.

Chelsea Devantez 46:20

I mean, maybe with my like, Instagram selfie with all the makeup I own all over my face.

Traci Thomas 46:26

Okay, maybe maybe with your homemade homemade cut bangs?

Chelsea Devantez 46:29

Yeah, maybe they can. No, there's drama there. Um, yes. What was that? Like? I'm still in it. I'm still in it. Interestingly enough, and I think I kind of have this. And I have I talked about it in the book, but I have this like, 15 year old me who's like, do not be like all those people we hated. Like, you need to know how good you have it now. And she's mean. She's like how dare you?

Traci Thomas 46:58

She's a bully. Yeah.

Chelsea Devantez 47:00

And also, like, I always just wanted help. I wanted to help so badly for a multitude of reasons when I was a kid, which is also how I found my way into books and celebrity memoirs where I was like, maybe there's help inside here. And so as an adult, I'm like, and I need to fulfill that wish I had. And yet, it's, I guess it's infuriating that there's not like, a job you can get or an amount of savings you can get where you go like, Alright, I'm cool now. You know, and called capitalism. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, definitely, like poor brain of just like just this, this scarcity, anxiety, that doesn't, you know, match up. And like, I definitely rely on this text thread. I rely on you, I rely on so many things to sort of keep me in balance, because my brain insists on being 15 a lot of the time. And I think it kind of messes up my personality sometimes. Because like, it's like when I was like, throwing a wedding. And I was I was posting a lot about it on Instagram. And I just remember one time I was like, This dress is $7,000 this this dress, or can you guys fucking believe this? And someone messaged me, and they're like, you're a TV read or like, just get it and it's like, but I still have a brain too much for an ugly fucking dress. And on principle, I am a DIY, glamorous trash queen. I got to be able to look myself in the fucking mirror and know that I gave $7,000 to dress and not like a good cause. Like, right and then live with that. And so but I do think there's this weird thing of where people's like, does she know? Why is she talking like this? And it's like, I don't know, raised on mac and cheese and libraries. I kind of hope it remains in my heart always because I am around TV writers who have said the most disgusting shit as casual normal, normal see around me and I'm just like, I can't let that happen to me. Yeah, also, by the way, I don't have a job right now. So I'm back. I'm, I'm just a lady who has a book coming out and I already got paid for it. So I don't know what happens next.

Traci Thomas 49:09

Back to the mac and cheese. That's the thing about mac and cheese. It's always gonna be there. It never goes bad. You know. Kraft?

Chelsea Devantez 49:13

I made it last night. It's very good. It's a good meal.

Traci Thomas 49:16

I that's what I want for dinner. Okay, we have it. We're like running out of time. I have so many other things. But we have to talk about a part of this book that is near and dear to my heart because I got to be a part of the process. The cover and the title. I asked this question to almost every author. And I'm always like, Oh, were you involved in the cover? Like how'd you come up with the title and usually like yeah, you know, like, you know, I knew this was the title and and but I happen to know for you that you had no fucking clue what the title or the cover of this book was supposed to be basically until you did, but it was like, months and months and months and months, especially for the cover. The cover was like I could have could have tanked the entire book.

Chelsea Devantez 50:03

Yeah, I so I sold the book with a title, which was, I love you, I'm sorry, please forgive me and fuck you. Because that is a prayer. My mom taught me a new age. The last line is her own. And they immediately were like the way you are using fuck you will get your book kind of shadow banned on like Amazon and stuff. So if I had written how to be a fucking badass, I'm back in business, we put some Asterix on the cover. We're good, but because it was said, Fuck you. Apparently there so they were just like, hey, it'll hurt yourselves unless you change it. So I was like, Okay, let's change it. Then I go into a freefall. And I think I live in this space, this space of like, very, very feminist, but also very femme. And I love makeup. And so very easily people will be like, oh my god like pink, sparkly lips. And like, her bras loose because she Missy. And it's like, oh, no, I understand I understand the Girlboss remnants we are working with, you got to put those away. Yeah. And I really think what people what I have found in all aspects of my art, including trying to get a cover is that not a lot of people know the aesthetics of a working class or poor trash person. You know what I mean? Where it's like, I'm not like do your purses and like high heels because I'm crushing it. Like I wear flip flops to every school dance. Like, we've got to know the lane we're working. And so getting a visual aesthetic was hard. A title was hard. The title came when I had to redact the book. And then I started working on titles, and then I pitched something. And my editor tweaked it to become what it is now.

Traci Thomas 51:51

And when you sent me the title, I remember being like, yes. So like, I was literally like, finally we did it.

Chelsea Devantez 51:57

Like, and you were the best author friend. Because I would send you things and you'd be like, ew, no, but I would never read. You need people like that.

Traci Thomas 52:04

You sent so many. And I remember being like so overwhelmed at one point. And I was like, I don't even know how you're doing it. Because I was like, I don't know how they're starting to sound the same. Like they feel the same. But then you sent this title. And I was like, Yeah, stop, stop. That's it stop. Walk away!

Chelsea Devantez 52:18

I think this is the perfect title for my book. And I don't I don't think and I still another truth is that titles like this aren't very good. Because you could walk away and be like, it's called, you should say something. It's called I shouldn't-

Traci Thomas 52:34

I can't tell you this. Yeah.

Chelsea Devantez 52:39

I was trying not to choose a title like this. But when you're choosing a title, everyone in the publishing house has to agree with you. And we didn't agree on anything. So every title I came up with that I loved, they were like you're out of your minds, and never and every title they came up with I was like, no, no, no way. And then the cover was just as bad. And I even had a cover and I was like Tracy, I'm sorry, this is it. And Tracy was like this is hideous. I'm like whatever I'm at, I'm at a time they told me I don't have any more changes. And what I had done was I had I had written out the words of what I'm looking for. And then I just let them go. But I think it goes through many so many voices that what you have to do is put together a literal visual deck of everything from fonts to colors to whatever of what you're looking for. That is what I ended up doing. And that is how I got this book cover at the very last second. And it's because someone told me at dinner my book cover looked like a dead protester. And I went to my editor and I said I'm getting I got dead protester feedback, so you have to let me change this.

Traci Thomas 53:38

Was that person me?

Chelsea Devantez 53:40

You said you hated it. Someone else said dead protester. But it was basically it was like a woman who was exhausted and laying down and because it's called I shouldn't be telling you this. They had been like she should have a megaphone in her. And yeah, not good.

Traci Thomas 53:55

And you were like I'm at a time and I was like, No you're not. Tell them you need more time.

Chelsea Devantez 54:00

Yeah, you did. And it was good. I need friends like you because I

Traci Thomas 54:03

you would have a dead protester on your cover right now.

Chelsea Devantez 54:06

She was a brunette. I was like she looks like me. I don't know.

Traci Thomas 54:10

No, she was like a light brunette too. Okay. How do you write? How often? How many hours a day music or no snacks or beverages rituals, set the scene?

Chelsea Devantez 54:29

Anything cute, organized and like a lovely writer's notebook and an adorable desk. Get rid of it. It's none of No, i i So, because I got into this by the way of Second City and writing stuff that I perform and I was always touring and I always had $2 to my name. I can write anywhere, at anytime. I can write laying down I can write half asleep. I can write on a plane while I'm on sanics actually My favorite way to write not on a plane I don't like planes, but like having the Xanax is nice. I can write I write from hot tubs. That's probably most of where I write when I can get to one. When I get to a hot tub do a lot of writing there. You say how by balancing your laptop on the ledge, my friends. I don't I don't know if music was on, that'd be fine. But I don't play music. I don't like slice up a cute little peach. I don't. I know that I like drinks around but I feel like

Traci Thomas 55:25

Alcoholic drinks or non alcoholic drinks?

Chelsea Devantez 55:27

I definitely drink some alcoholic drinks to get the first draft of some chapters out. Which definitely feels like some weird Ermis Ernest Hemingway advice or something like write drunk, edit sober, whatever. I don't know. I like not being precious about my writing. I think it makes it easier to know when it's good and know when it's bad. Because it's not my precious little writing. You know what I mean? And also, I just was trained in late night TV and like you said Johnson show. It's like, write another joke. Write another read another joke, read an article habitate write a joke have a take and so switching up and rewriting is like where? Where it happens anyway. And I do that from wherever.

Traci Thomas 56:10

What's the word you can never spell correctly on the first try?

Chelsea Devantez 56:13

All of them. i We moved around were the same. And we missed I missed this. Whatever year I was supposed to learn spelling at whatever school spelling and grammar is tough for me. I'm millennial.

Traci Thomas 56:26

Oh, yeah. Really, really complicated one for me. There's so many options of what vowels could be in that word that I'm just Yeah.

Chelsea Devantez 56:34

I mean, it's always and I and I never choose the I.

Traci Thomas 56:38

I sometimes put Us in millennial. I don't know. I don't know. For people who love this book. What else would you recommend to them? That's maybe in conversation with what you've written.

Chelsea Devantez 56:51

I was hoping you could help me with this. i Okay. Jennette McCurdy, okay, yeah. Margaret Cho's first memoir. Okay. Possibly Gabrielle Union's first memoir. Yeah, I think so. A book you recommended to me, which was Lacy M Johnson's. The Other Side.

Traci Thomas 57:12

I feel like what about Angela Tucker's book?

Chelsea Devantez 57:15

Yes, Angela. I would be honored for it to be in conversation with and it's because her book has helped me so much. I think one thing I want to make clear to everyone is that like, I you gonna say suppose but it is smartest to memoir and write about life that when you've had a lot of years on it, and, and a lot of introspection, and you can really deliver the story. I am a full open wound about being donor conceived. Like I may have said the wrong things in the chapter. But I couldn't write a memoir without it. And I learned so much from people who have come so much farther than me like Angela Tucker.

Traci Thomas 57:51

If you could have a person dead or alive read this book, who would you want it to be?

Chelsea Devantez 57:57

I would want a woman who shared her trauma and years when society wasn't ready, and out cast her for it because she shared too much. Maybe Britney Spears.

Traci Thomas 58:13

Okay. I like that answer. All right, everybody, Chelsea's book. Now listen carefully. This is the title. Don't get it wrong. I Shouldn't be telling you this (But I'm going to anyway) is out as you're listening to this. Now you can get it on audio. Chelsea reads the audio, I have to say in full transparency. We're recording this early, I have not been able to get my hands on the audio yet. So I'm going to wait till the book actually comes out to listen to it. But I might have to read it a third time.

Chelsea Devantez 58:40

I'm so shocked that you would do an audiobook, what a friend! You've already read the book twice!

Traci Thomas 58:45

I love audiobooks. And I'm sure it's really funny. And I also want to hear how you all do the redacted sections. Like I'm just curious about the audio. I was trying to get it before we recorded this, but we're too early and they didn't have it finished ready in time. So but yes, you can get the audiobook wherever you get your audiobooks. And you can get the physical book wherever you get your physical books. And if you're listening to this, right as this comes out, Chelsea still has a few more stops on her book tour. So check those out on her website and also listen to her podcast. clamors trash. I've been on three times. So there's three perfect episodes. And then there's many other episodes you could also listen to.

Chelsea Devantez 59:20

And you'll be coming on again shortly.

Traci Thomas 59:23

I am for what?

Chelsea Devantez 59:24

We'll find out baby. Oh, you're always coming on this podcast.

Traci Thomas 59:29

There's lots of celebrities. They're writing things and I've got opinions. Chelsea, thank you so much for doing this.

Chelsea Devantez 59:34

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for building this book with me. It is tangibly better because of your brain and I just feel so lucky that I met you and I did and I love you as a friend and you're in the acknowledgments.

Traci Thomas 59:48

My copy doesn't have the acknowledgments yet. I would need another copy; I gotta get a finished physical, finished audio. And I got an arc I've got I want my manuscript. Can I have my manuscript back my marked up manuscript?

Chelsea Devantez 1:00:04

Oh, that is so funny. I'll send it to you.

Traci Thomas 1:00:08

Okay. I need all four copies of this book. Thank you. I love you and everyone else want to see you in the stacks.

Alright y'all that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening and thank you again to Chelsea for joining the show. Remember The Stacks book club pick for June is It ends with us by Colleen Hoover. We will discuss the book on Wednesday June 26. With our guest Melissa Mogollon. If you love the show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com/thestacks to join The Stacks Pack and subscribe to my newsletter at TraciThomas.substack.com. Make sure you're subscribed to The Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you're listening through Apple podcasts or Spotify, be sure to leave a rating and a review. For more from The Stacks follow us on social media at thestackspod on Instagram, Threads and TikTok and at thestackspod_ on Twitter and you can check out my website at thestackspodcast.com. This episode of The Stacks was edited by Christian Dueñas, with production assistance from Lauren Tyree. Our graphic designer is Robin McCreight and our theme music is from Tagirijus. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Traci Thomas.

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